Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 03:04:05 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #159 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: re: Origins of Kempo (George Mason) 2. Re: re: Origins of Kempo (Ray) 3. NEW FLORIDA GUN LAW (Clint Cayson) 4. Re: Kenpo/FMA connection (Kes41355@aol.com) 5. Celebrity endorsement (iPat) 6. SAN JOSE (Rudy Carrillo) 7. Re: Eskrima of Dizon/Balahadia and Madrigal (GatPuno@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:01:02 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: George Mason To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] re: Origins of Kempo Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Nat, I totally know what you mean in your statements. That is the reason I bought all this stuff up about the origins of the kali influence in the art of kempo. You see, my first black belt was in Pa Sa Ryu, but my second was in Chinese Kempo. My instructor was one of Professor Chow's personal students. Back in the day when I trained with him there was stick influence for sure. But what I saw in the Chinese system looks a lot more like what I saw when I started training in FMA. At the same time, I have a friend that trained in the Ed Parker system and what he did with the stick looked a lot more Japanese to me. This is one of the reasons that I was asking. You see, there are several things that I have questions about at this time. And I am trying to piece together some more of the historical details. My training partner is a very good 5th degree and he has a good bit of stick fighting in his art. But again, it looks very Japanese. So I asked him where he learned the stick and he said he learned it from a Kenpo instructor that he trained with for a long time. This also brings up another issue. The two spellings. Kenpo and Kempo. Master Barrongan calls it Kempo and so does my friend that trained in Hawaii with Chow. But Parker, also a student of Chow, calls it Kenpo. So what is up with the alternate spelling. I have asked a couple of people and Have gotten some, what I would call, squirrely answers. Therefore, I was very curious to see if any of you out there on the net might know more about it. I was sorry to hear about your experience with the guys in Arizona. But I must say, in recent years, I have seen a lot of schools that were teaching a very watered-down version of the arts. We all realize that to truly learn the arts one must be very dedicated to hard work. Many of us that fought in the ring have the scars to show for the hard work. I think it really has bothered me in recent times to see the lax attitude of a lot of the people training and sadly a lot of the teachers as well. Again, thanks for your comments. I am definately learning from everyone's posts each day. And I greatly enjoy being a part of this network. God's Blessings to you all. Geo the Bear -----Original Message----- From: Nat Nickele Sent: Apr 27, 2005 10:22 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] re: Origins of Kempo FWIW, some of the people who practice what they claim to be EP Kempo have mentioned to me that they do FMA. (you may recall me compaining in one of my earlier post that in the Phoenix, AZ area about the terrible EPK students I met) Apon seeing my stick, one of them remarked, "Hey, an Arnie stick. We use those." I asked if they ment Arnis but they -ahem- corrected me and said it was pronounced "Arnie." Then I was shown what could only be a highschool baton twirling routing. Not that I have any skill in FMA to speak of, but sadly, even I could tell that they knew zip. So, in summary, because the EPK out here is like a tragic immitation of actual EPK, and they claim to know FMA, I assume that legit EPK practices some legit FMA. Also, before I get all sorts of mean and angry replies about how I talk about EPK, let me say that I have met many non-Arizonans who do EPK (or Traco, when it existed). I even know a few people who trained with Parker. They were all very impressive and knowegeable, but FMA never came up in the conversation. I just like to complain about some of the locals. So go get mad at someone else. ....Unless of course you take offense at my AZ EPK opinions; then be as mad as you want ;) -Nat _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] re: Origins of Kempo To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > But Parker, also a student of Chow, calls it Kenpo. > > So what is up with the alternate spelling. I have asked a couple of people > and Have gotten some, what I would call, squirrely answers. Simply different romanizations for the same kanji. Kenpo/Kempo/Kwonbup/Kuntao/Chuan'fa... all different romanizations for the same Chinese characters meaning Fist Method. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:35:35 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Subject: [Eskrima] NEW FLORIDA GUN LAW Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey all! Thought this is a good reading or point discussion about guns (again) and other related things. New Florida Gun Law Allows Wide-Ranging Self Defense NewsMax.com Wires Friday, March 25, 2005 A bill permitting the use of deadly force during a home invasion or when an individual considers themselves threatened unanimously passed the Florida Senate on Wednesday. The measure (SB 436) would eliminate criminal penalties for an individual who uses deadly force as self-protection in his home or vehicle and other unspecified circumstances. The Senate passed the gun measure, supported by the National Rifle Association, on a 38-0 vote just moments after it defeated a proposal that might have cleared the way for Terri Schiavo's feeding tube to be reinserted. The open-ended language on the bill sponsored by Sen. Durell Peaden Jr. concerned some lawmakers. "...Provides that a person may use force, including deadly force, against an intruder or attacker in a dwelling, residence, or vehicle under specified circumstances. Creates a presumption that a reasonable fear of death or bodily injury exists under certain circumstances. Creates a presumption that a person acts with the intent to use force or violence under specified circumstances. Provides that a person is justified in using deadly force. Declares that a person is not under a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be. Provides that a person is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for using deadly force. Authorizes a law enforcement agency to investigate the use of deadly force but prohibits the agency from arresting the person unless the agency determines that probable cause exists showing that the force that was used was unlawful..." "Under the wording of this bill, somebody could go onto any of the streets and if they think somebody is walking toward them in a threatening fashion, they can pull out a gun and begin blasting away," said Sen. Steven Geller, D-Hallandale Beach, who sought unsuccessfully to amend the bill on Tuesday. "We're heading towards a Wild West mentality," Geller said. "I am concerned that you could literally have two guys standing on the street, both of them ready, the guns at their side, and then say 'Well the other guy threatened me so I pulled a gun and shot him in self defense.'" Peaden, R-Crestview, scoffed at the characterization. "You have to be within the confines of the dwelling as described in this bill," Peaden said during Wednesday's floor debate. "You just can't shoot anybody on the street and drag 'em in." Geller said he voted for the bill for political reasons. "We'd be seen as Democrats soft on crime," he said. A similar proposal (HB 249) was approved on an 8-2 vote Wednesday by the House Justice Council. Here's the link for more scrutiny. http://www.flsenate.gov/session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&Submenu=1&BI_Mode=V iewBillInfo&Billnum=0436&Year=2005 Scary, scary law... Thanks for reading. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 13:59:06 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Kenpo/FMA connection Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Concerning the influence that Danzen-Ryu Ju-Jutsu had on the development of Kenpo, Danzen-Ryu was very heavily influence by the Filipino arts, particularly the knife training that Okazaki Sensei witnessed among the Filipino farm workers in Hawaii. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 4/28/2005 5:54:31 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: The original kosho ryu kenpo of Mitose was heavily influenced by the structure of Danzan Ryu since it was the only real "open" school on the islands before the second world war. Mitose's organization was originally a branch of the Kodenkan before it established it's own identity. The was a group of short stick techniques in one variat of kajukenbo called "kon-bo" . I can see how this eventually evolved into kenpo stick. Unfortunately the stick in question was only 12" long. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 23:58:58 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Celebrity endorsement Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200504/s1355786.htm Good scoop by Fairtex, how many rich daddy's are going to send their sons to get them in shape! -- iPat live for today, live for tomorrow "Truth is a pathless land. Man cannot come to it through any organisation, through any creed, through any dogma, priest or ritual, nor through any philosophic knowledge or psychological technique. He has to find it through the mirror of relationship, through the understanding of the contents of his own mind, through observation and not through intellectual analysis or introspective dissection..." --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Rudy Carrillo" To: Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 16:13:13 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] SAN JOSE Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Good Afternoon, I will be in San Jose, CA next Thursday. Looking for an FMA group to meet during my visit. I am from Phoenix, AZ and a student of FMA. Send Email to private mail. Thanx Rudy Carrillo rudy@bcengr.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 21:02:47 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima of Dizon/Balahadia and Madrigal Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Any idea.?.?. Would these Eskrimadors have employed a similar style of > eskrima/arnis or were they simply a collection of fighters that got together > for training or friendship? > > i.e. can we leap to the conclusion that Dizon, Ilustrimsimo, Madrigal and > Balahadia were similar style fighters? Even though it would seem that > Madrigal and Balahadia were 15 to 25 years younger than Dizon and Tatang. > When Wiley and I spoke to the old man, He mentioned he was just a spectator at that time, 24 masters of Arnis/Eskrima 12 fairs, chosen from different part of Luzon, Visaya and Mindanao, that willing to test their skill in their style of Eskrima or Arnis. Therefore the style of GM Balahadia and Madrigal is not the same style of GM Dizon, and Tatang Ilustrisimo. I remember back on 1996 or 1998, I recieved an e-mail from Australias Ilustrisimo student telling me that Tatang are talk about the Gatheriong of Doce Pares in Laguna. Doce Pares in Laguna is not a style, is group of different Maestros, that test their skill in various style of Arnis. I dont know about the claimed that insinde the cave is set with booby traps and so on. Becaused up to now the cave is still accessible from Lucban Quezon, and now being guarded by the Government becaused of the Massive Catholic fanatics live theres and used that place as the secred place for praying or house of Anting-anting (Amulet). I see some similar move from Serrada, especially the common fighting stance that Cabales used, we called that "Kalong Stance" or craddle stance, The block that Ilustrisimo used called Pluma is one of the three major block used in Siete Pares or Siete Coloures Arnis. So difinitely similirity is common in other style of Eskrima/Arnis. Later on the GM Felizisimo "PULIS" Madrigal got an idea to put together a Doce Pares Style of Arnis, that he absorbed to all of the fighters and GM that he practice in Mount Banahaw. In Laguna if your style is 12 your not ligimate Laguna style, most of the style in Laguna is Siete Coloures/Pares, Tres Puntos and Sinko Teros of Central Luzon. But according to few Grandmasters, there a lot Visayan attended the Doce Pares Gathering and few of them claimed that theirs a lot of them is very-very good, but some is not so good, like some Eskrimador is Laguna some of the Practitioner is not so good, and a lot are hiding their arts to the others masters, and some are very good fighter but dont know how to teach. All in all Eskrimadores is Eskrimadores where ever you are came from in the Philippines. They share mutual respect and shared dreams to be the best of the best every Good Friday. Hope its help, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest