Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 17:43:08 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #177 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. The 7 Ranges of DBMA part 2 (Marc Denny) 2. On the Nature of Pekiti-Tirsia kali (Loki Jorgenson) 3. Bob Orlando in the land of Haggis (Marc MacYoung) 4. Re: full contact silat (Matthew Barclay) 5. Re: The 7 Ranges of DBMA part 2 ([Bast]) 6. Re: Re: full contact silat (George Mason) 7. Re: Pekiti-Tirsia Malaysia (WEE Shin Hoe) 8. World Eskrima Championships (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 06:04:56 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] The 7 Ranges of DBMA part 2 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Bast asked: > Hello all ! > > I had a question concerning DBMA : What are the seven dogbrothers ranges > ??? I > think i am mixing things ;-) Could you also give me some explanations i am > a > little bit lost ;-) > > Thanks ! > Bast (newbie !) The 7 Ranges of DBMA (Dog Brothers Martial Arts) are: 1) Snake Range: Consistent use of terminology between different FMA systems being prohibited, this has nothing to do with a "snake disarm". Rather it refers to the range before contact is made. For us the term comes from Top Dog's "snakey stick" movements at this range. Here is where we protect our hands, hide our intentions and mask the initiation of our attacks. 2) Weapon Range: Where bubbles collide- where the bubble created by his weapon and your weapon intersect. Not very important in a small knife fight, very important in a staff fight. It can be important in a stick fight, but does not have to be. 3) Largo: hand can be struck 4) Medio: head/body can be struck, live hand can check 5) Corto: punyo can strike, as can live hand. 6) Clinch: like it says. 7) Ground: like it says Does this help? Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 10:08:40 +0800 From: Loki Jorgenson Organization: maelstrom Core To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] On the Nature of Pekiti-Tirsia kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My primary guro in Pekiti-Tirsia kali is Mandala Tuhon Philip Gelinas of Montreal - I started with him in 1989, shortly after Grand Tuhon stopped touring N.America for a period. I didn't train with GT until 1998 when I went to the Philippines. From early days, I have made it a mission to cross-train with as many other people in Pekiti-Tirsia as possible - people like William McGrath, Leslie Buck, Omar Hakim, Dan Inosanto, and other notables who have roots going back to the early 80's when GT was touring extensively. My reason is similar to Leslie's - Pekiti-Tirsia is an organic system that is more embodied by GT himself than any fixed curriculum. In fact, to try to capture Pekiti-Tirsia with a curriculum is like taking a photo of flowing river - it is representative but not definitive. What you see as material today from GT appears substantially different from, say, the early 80's material. This puzzled (and worried) me for a while - until I began to develop my own sense of the system. It's like the old saw about the blind men and the elephant - there is no "right" place to start the exploration. But you have to start somewhere and expand from there. That said, the system itself is clearly evolving - GT will state that it is a dynamic system - and so does the focus when he teaches. From what I have seen, each instructor tends to be rooted wherever GT's focus was at that time. And, since he doesn't stick to a fixed progressive curriculum, each of today's instructors appears to have defined their own point-of-entry and progression for teaching beginners. I suspect someone starting with Grand Tuhon would have their own entry point (and probably think for a while that it was the only entry point of value since it came from GT himself). This is why cross-training with other Pekiti-Tirsia instructors is so enlightening. I have learned many "new" things from other instructors (as well as GT) but they have never been "unexpected" or inconsistent with what I have previously learned. So there is never any breakdown or contradiction within the system. It is apparent, as Leslie mentioned, that each instructor must undertake to explore and understand the nature of the system that GT propagates - they must do their own homework if they hope to advance. However, naturally enough, we all seem to discover the same thing eventually..... IMHO, GT is either quite mad or he's an incredible martial genius. Every step of my journey, since its beginning, suggests that he's the latter. Of course I'm biased. Hope that helps. eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: >Message: 5 >From: "abreton@juno.com" >Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 02:33:56 GMT >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] PTK gun seguidas >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >I'm curious about other people's experiences with Tuhon Gaje's teaching, particularly his teaching method. I've learned from various Pekiti people and they each had thier own teaching method, but the majority seemed to have an organic nature to it like Leslie mentioned. Even when there was more structure than what you describe, it seemed like I was drilling the movement for a while before I was given the name for what I was doing. I this other people's perceptions as well? > >I'm also curious from those who learned directly for tuhon gaje rather than - like me who leaned from someone else first, in what order he presents the system to a brand new person, what he chooses to present first, second, etc. > >Andy > > > -- maelstrom \ Loki Jorgenson martial _ \ Pekiti-Tirsia kali loki@maelstromcore.com arts / O_/ Dog Brothers MA www.maelstromcore.com \ Inosanto Academy (604) 340-2480 \ silat Jati Wisesa -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.10 - Release Date: 5/13/2005 --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 10:48:30 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Bob Orlando in the land of Haggis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey folks it appears that Mr. Bob Orlando is going to be heading to Scotland in August. Edinborough -- is that spelled right? -- for sure, but a number of other places as well. He asked me to check around and see if there were any schools that would be interested in a free, mini seminar/demo while he is there. So do any folks in the UK know of a school that would be interested in hosting such an event? Contact Bob O Bob@OrlandoKuntao.com http://www.orlandokuntao.com Marc Animal MacYoung --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 19:16:26 +0100 (BST) From: Matthew Barclay To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: full contact silat Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Geo, (and everyone!) I think that this is a sad byproduct of todays more open society. We share more arts with each other, and we often have the opportunity to learn multiple martial arts, which is fantastic. The only downside is you get lazy &*%^$--- who pick and choose techniques from a couple of arts, without learning the core principles, let along getting towards being good at them, and go out and teach. The amount of people in england who do indonesian/filipino/malaysian martial arts, and when you ask what system they practise, they don't know. They recognise basic postures, moves etc, but don't know why they do them. These teachers are purely about money, and fame. The reason they are on TV is because the persue publicity to gain more money and fame. The rest of us guys are happy to keep training in garages, church halls, rooms in gyms etc because we train for the love of it. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not against people promoting their art, or training in their own custom made gyms - good on them- we need the real teachers teaching their stuff, and not freezing to death while doing it can only be a bonus!) I think the reason most good schools don't get on tv is because they have no desire to - they're too busy training! Sorry bout the rant, just the amount of dangerous crap that's taught in the name of our arts not only reflects badly on the real practitioners out here, but it'll also get some poor unsuspecting student killed someday. Regards, Matt Barclay ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "[Bast]" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The 7 Ranges of DBMA part 2 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 23:03:02 +0200 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net yes, it helped a lot !!! thanks very much ! Bast, young pup ;-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marc Denny" To: Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 3:04 PM Subject: [Eskrima] The 7 Ranges of DBMA part 2 > Woof All: > > Bast asked: > > > > Hello all ! > > > > I had a question concerning DBMA : What are the seven dogbrothers ranges > > ??? I > > think i am mixing things ;-) Could you also give me some explanations i am > > a > > little bit lost ;-) > > > > Thanks ! > > Bast (newbie !) > > The 7 Ranges of DBMA (Dog Brothers Martial Arts) are: > > 1) Snake Range: Consistent use of terminology between different FMA systems > being prohibited, this has nothing to do with a "snake disarm". Rather it > refers to the range before contact is made. For us the term comes from Top > Dog's "snakey stick" movements at this range. Here is where we protect our > hands, hide our intentions and mask the initiation of our attacks. > 2) Weapon Range: Where bubbles collide- where the bubble created by his > weapon and your weapon intersect. Not very important in a small knife > fight, very important in a staff fight. It can be important in a stick > fight, but does not have to be. > 3) Largo: hand can be struck > 4) Medio: head/body can be struck, live hand can check > 5) Corto: punyo can strike, as can live hand. > 6) Clinch: like it says. > 7) Ground: like it says > > Does this help? > > Woof, > Crafty Dog > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 16:16:13 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: George Mason To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: full contact silat Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Matt, You have no idea how much I agree with what you are saying. You are right on the money with this. It is exactly the reason that I get so frustrated with what is going on in the arts these days. I teach several different arts but of the arts I teach I spent numerous years learning each on of them. I feel that you have to have a solid foundation in an art before you can even consider teaching it. It is good to hear from one such as yourself. Geo the Bear -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Barclay Sent: May 15, 2005 12:16 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: full contact silat Hi Geo, (and everyone!) I think that this is a sad byproduct of todays more open society. We share more arts with each other, and we often have the opportunity to learn multiple martial arts, which is fantastic. The only downside is you get lazy &*%^$--- who pick and choose techniques from a couple of arts, without learning the core principles, let along getting towards being good at them, and go out and teach. The amount of people in england who do indonesian/filipino/malaysian martial arts, and when you ask what system they practise, they don't know. They recognise basic postures, moves etc, but don't know why they do them. These teachers are purely about money, and fame. The reason they are on TV is because the persue publicity to gain more money and fame. The rest of us guys are happy to keep training in garages, church halls, rooms in gyms etc because we train for the love of it. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not against people promoting their art, or training in their own custom made gyms - good on them- we need the real teachers teaching their stuff, and not freezing to death while doing it can only be a bonus!) I think the reason most good schools don't get on tv is because they have no desire to - they're too busy training! Sorry bout the rant, just the amount of dangerous crap that's taught in the name of our arts not only reflects badly on the real practitioners out here, but it'll also get some poor unsuspecting student killed someday. Regards, Matt Barclay ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 21:25:57 +0800 From: WEE Shin Hoe To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Pekiti-Tirsia Malaysia Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Omar, That would be great. You can reach me at /shinhoe@pc.jaring.my/ Regards, S. H. Wee Sarawak, Malaysia. Omar Hakim wrote: >Hi Shin Hoe, > >Thanks for your email. I left Malaysia and returned to the US in late >February 2005 as soon as I finished my Silat training. There is a >Pekiti-Tirsia group now formed in Kuala Lumpur. Please send me a direct >email if you'd like help getting in touch with them. Take care. > >Regards, >Omar Hakim --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 18:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] World Eskrima Championships Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net May 15, 2005 To All Eskrimadors, The House of Champions is proud to present Grand Master Cacoy Canete's 2005 World Eskrima Championships. This event will take place on Saturday, June 11, 2005. You are hereby formally invited to attend this premier event to be held at Taft High school located at: 5461 Winnetka Ave Woodland Hills, California 91364 USA I look forward to seeing you and appreciate your support. Respectfully, Mark 17228 Saticoy Street Van Nuys, CA 91406 818.996.7180 818.345.4952 fax www.houseofchampions.com mparrahoc@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest