Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 09:00:59 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #178 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. On the nature of Pekiti Tirsia (Leslie L. Buck Jr. TKA) 2. Re: Full contact Silat? (Felipe Jocano) 3. Rey Galang's New Book Now Out!!!1 (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: Full contact Silat? (George Mason) 5. RE: Bob Orlando in the land of Haggis (Andrew Evans) 6. custom browser for martial arts (malcolm knight) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Leslie L. Buck Jr. TKA" To: Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 22:58:02 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] On the nature of Pekiti Tirsia Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Here's a topic that really gets me excited. It's the teaching method. I am interested in this because I truly believe the secret in martial arts is not in the technique, but in the training method. The best technique in the world will never work if it is not trained properly. So how effective we are going to be depends on the teaching method and our effort to learn. As a generalization, I have seen two different approaches to teaching martial arts. One, I call the western method, which is often organized in a linear progression. It is more academic in nature. It typically codifies everything and labels even the variations of core material. The western method leads students through lessons in a way that everyone can learn. This is the way we typically learn in school. The other method I call the eastern method. This is one that is nonlinear. It is often taught without consistancy in content. Fewer connections in the material are illustrated. Less feedback is offered and there often more than one "right way." This method more similar to how we learn language - through imitation, conversation, and trial and error when we don't have a dictionary or grammar book. It's through research. It's up to you to learn it. These are of course generalizations, and I only name them as eastern or western methods because of my personal experience. Teachers I've known from the west tended to be more methodical whereas my personal teachers from the east (Indonesia, Philippines) seemed to vary the material and leave a lot of the information up for discovery rather than using direct illustration. And this leads to my point. Tuhon Gaje is teaching in a method that is more eastern in nature. You learn by accumulation. The more pieces of the puzzle you put together, the clearer the big picture becomes. In truth, there is a structure behind the material you learn, but you are often not given that structure ahead of time. You must keep training and find it for yourself. This is not because Tuhon forgot what he taught you last time, it's because he wants you to develop critical thinking skills. He wants you to learn to adapt and explore. Tuhon requires you to read between the lines and figure stuff out rather than just hand it to you. He may show you the technique in a seminar, but does he teach you how to apply it? Or perhaps he develops your skills to apply a technique, but doesn't reveal a technique or its significance until later. It's not only a way to ensure only loyal students get the "secret stuff," but it's also a way to weed out those who either don't get it or just don't try hard to learn. I think because of this, Tuhon Gaje's students and instructor's have different levels of understanding and expertise with the same material. Some instructor's may just teach the way they remember Tuhon did them by chunking material together. Others may rearrange the material to suit their own method. Again, like learning a language, there are "basics" such as simple vocabulary and syntax, but there is more than one place to start. Like my friend Loki, I started with Tuhon Gaje in 98 after many years with my instructor Erwin Ballarta. I was fortunate to have some knowledge before my first lesson with Tuhon, and ever since then, I have studied his method of teaching in addition to the material itself. There are many layers to it, and I really have a high appreciation for it. I could go on forever, but as you can see I have already too much. (sorry.) Anyway, I think the new person with Tuhon is either blown away with the challenge and passion or disappointed because they did not see the significance of what he offered. To sum it up: Tuhon's method works best individually and in small groups because it is tailored to the student. The goal is not for everyone to learn it all. You will not be given the next step until you pick up on the first one. Later, you are guided to learn through your own discoveries. Also, you are given the freedom to make mistakes. It's a part of the learning process. Once you start to get it, then the learning and teaching process will accelerate - more subtleties are revealed, more material is condensed in drills that require more. Eventually, you will learn on the fly (while Tuhon is hitting you), through technical sparring and bridging drills, through teaching and through sharing experiences with other instructors and students who are on the same quest for knowledge. best regards to all, Leslie --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 03:33:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Full contact Silat? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Geo, You mean me (looks over shoulder)? Or someone else who posted on silat tournaments (questioning look on face, looks beyond screen)? If its me (grins), yes I'm also a silat practitioner. Very low level, definitely a student forever :-) My guro teaches both traditional and sport silat. He's the head coach of the Philippine National team. He was officiating at the first tournament I mentioned and when I had the chance to talk to him, he gestured at the arena and said "Masakit sa mata." (It's painful to the eyes) and you could definitely get what he meant by that :-) I saw the video of the second tournament I mentioned - it was taken by my classmate. This time, the action was better. Another match on that video - the opponents moved around doing various postures. This time around, the attacks came out of the different postures from wherever they happened to be in, depending on the distance. Less and less of the karate thingy :-). Which would mean that technically the sport style has been doing some serious evolution lately. I don't know yet if we will see the continued growth of a format where different stylists can match against each other using their styles without killing each other; or the appearance of a generic sport fighting format peculiar to silat. Frankly I hope it's the former - for pesilat who know and understand what to do, they can match skills without committing homicide and still keep the essence of their arts intact. Notice I didn't say hurt - full contact matches, even if controlled and for the purpose of showing skill still hurt. It's just that the one's knowledge and ability to use one's style without killing someone shows the level of skill and control and ultimately character. Incidentally, as I write this, I've been thinking about how this can apply to sport arnis or eskrima. The dilemma is still the same - go for a generic sport format or encourage the evolution of a venue for using style without having to destroy people. I stopped competing for ten years now, not that I was very good at it, and in that time I began to appreciate the difference between training for matches and training to use your art to break people (Again I can't guarantee I can break anyone I want - I may end up getting broken instead :-) but anyway...). O'ong Maryono in a series of excellent articles for Rapid Journal (the local martial arts magazine here in the Philippines) narrated how many guro would steal techniques from other schools all the time during tournaments and teach them to their students, including how to neutralize them. I was told by my friends still active in the tournament arnis scene that the same thing pretty much kept on happening here in the local ARPI (Arnis Philipppines) tournaments. Slowly a generic form of tournament sparring has been evolving. What direction it will take in the future time will tell. Bot --- George Mason wrote: > Hey, > > Thanks for the info on the silat tournament. I was > glad to read it. > > Are you a Silat Practitioner? > > Geo the Bear > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 03:40:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Rey Galang's New Book Now Out!!!1 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, I just got a copy of master Rey Galang's new book, Warrior Arts of the Philippines. Very nice read! I highly recommend it to everyone here on the list. Alerady it's one of my favorites. And no, you may not borrow my copy! (picks up stick and dagger and makes shooing movements :-)) Bot __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 08:17:46 -0600 (GMT-06:00) From: George Mason To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Full contact Silat? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Bot, Great to hear back from you. I understand what you mean about the full contact fighting. I did it for a long time. Fortunately for my health, I did pretty well. I fought in a lot of non-sanctioned bouts and in some rough stuff. But these days I just train for personal improvement. It was great to hear your thoughts and experiences. So do you live in the Phillippines or in the states? I have several friends from the Phillippines that live here now. Just curious. Geo the Bear -----Original Message----- From: Felipe Jocano Sent: May 16, 2005 4:33 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Full contact Silat? Hi Geo, You mean me (looks over shoulder)? Or someone else who posted on silat tournaments (questioning look on face, looks beyond screen)? If its me (grins), yes I'm also a silat practitioner. Very low level, definitely a student forever :-) My guro teaches both traditional and sport silat. He's the head coach of the Philippine National team. He was officiating at the first tournament I mentioned and when I had the chance to talk to him, he gestured at the arena and said "Masakit sa mata." (It's painful to the eyes) and you could definitely get what he meant by that :-) I saw the video of the second tournament I mentioned - it was taken by my classmate. This time, the action was better. Another match on that video - the opponents moved around doing various postures. This time around, the attacks came out of the different postures from wherever they happened to be in, depending on the distance. Less and less of the karate thingy :-). Which would mean that technically the sport style has been doing some serious evolution lately. I don't know yet if we will see the continued growth of a format where different stylists can match against each other using their styles without killing each other; or the appearance of a generic sport fighting format peculiar to silat. Frankly I hope it's the former - for pesilat who know and understand what to do, they can match skills without committing homicide and still keep the essence of their arts intact. Notice I didn't say hurt - full contact matches, even if controlled and for the purpose of showing skill still hurt. It's just that the one's knowledge and ability to use one's style without killing someone shows the level of skill and control and ultimately character. Incidentally, as I write this, I've been thinking about how this can apply to sport arnis or eskrima. The dilemma is still the same - go for a generic sport format or encourage the evolution of a venue for using style without having to destroy people. I stopped competing for ten years now, not that I was very good at it, and in that time I began to appreciate the difference between training for matches and training to use your art to break people (Again I can't guarantee I can break anyone I want - I may end up getting broken instead :-) but anyway...). O'ong Maryono in a series of excellent articles for Rapid Journal (the local martial arts magazine here in the Philippines) narrated how many guro would steal techniques from other schools all the time during tournaments and teach them to their students, including how to neutralize them. I was told by my friends still active in the tournament arnis scene that the same thing pretty much kept on happening here in the local ARPI (Arnis Philipppines) tournaments. Slowly a generic form of tournament sparring has been evolving. What direction it will take in the future time will tell. Bot --- George Mason wrote: > Hey, > > Thanks for the info on the silat tournament. I was > glad to read it. > > Are you a Silat Practitioner? > > Geo the Bear > > ________________________________________ > PeoplePC Online > A better way to Internet > http://www.peoplepc.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: "Andrew Evans" Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Bob Orlando in the land of Haggis Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just some quick praise for Mr. Bob Orlando regarding his 2-day seminar in Kansas last December. While I tend to compliment many martial artists, I have to admit that we are blessed with the friendship of many skilled practitioners/instructors. That being said, I have to admit that Bob Orlando is one of the finest martial artists of our time. Below is part of a review of his Topeka, Kansas seminar. If anyone wants the whole version, please feel free of ask. "Bob Orlando helped to energize our group by showing us a lot of great drills and principles. He made what are often considered obscure martial arts easy to learn and understand with his highly organized and logical teaching methods. We highly recommend that any martial artist looking to broaden their perspectives give the Indonesian Fighting Arts a good hard (and soft) look with one of his seminars. I highly recommend him!" Hope you folks in the UK take advantage of Mr. Orlando's generous offer. Respectfully, Andrew Evans Hokkien Martial Arts of Topeka, Kansas www.TopekaKarate.com br>
Message: 3
From: "Marc MacYoung"
To:
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 10:48:30 -0700
Subject: [Eskrima] Bob Orlando in the land of Haggis
Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net

Hey folks it appears that Mr. Bob Orlando is going to be heading to Scotland
in August. Edinborough -- is that spelled right? -- for sure, but a number
of other places as well. He asked me to check around and see if there were
any schools that would be interested in a free, mini seminar/demo while he
is there. So do any folks in the UK know of a school that would be
interested in hosting such an event?

Contact Bob O
Bob@OrlandoKuntao.com
http://www.orlandokuntao.com

Marc Animal MacYoung

_______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "malcolm knight" To: Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 17:36:17 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] custom browser for martial arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hi folks had an idea , dont know if its any good but here goes a custom web browser only with links to martial arts sites folks able to submit their own links to be contained in the browser submit articles on your own sites or ma sites where you have had good service, info etc freely distributable open source ( visual basic ) just think it nice if you open the browser and all you can get are user reccomended sites , articles etc whats your feeling folks ? is it worth the while to start codeing it ? Malcolm-k If you think its worthwhile or got any thoughts but don't wanna clog up the board then mail me at malcolmk@ntlworld.com just be sure to put "custom browser" in the subject line. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest