Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:56:57 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #215 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Thanks for all the feedback....Pinoy Titles.. (Felipe Jocano) 2. RE: Bastoneros of Negros (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 3. Serrada (Ray) 4. Re: Video Clips: Russian martial arts (Rodriguez John) 5. Re: Video Clips: Russian martial arts (Ray) 6. Re: Thanks for all the feedback....Pinoy Titles.. (nephalim1@netscape.net) 7. Re: Video Clips: Russian martial arts (Steve Ames) 8. RE: Video Clips: Russian martial arts (James Nordstrom) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 21:29:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Thanks for all the feedback....Pinoy Titles.. To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi everyone, --- Joseph Florendo wrote: > My apologies if I'm beating a dead horse here, don't > know how long this > topic's been going on. Actually this keeps coming back every now and then. Must be a zombie horse :-) it keeps sticking its head out of the ground :-) While I do agree that datu is a title of nobility, especially among our Muslim brethren, that hasn't stopped different groups from appropriating the title for use in their ranking systems. What is more important is that the individuals have the skill to back up the rank given to them, regardless of the terminology used. About Grandmaster and Master titles...we really do have them here :-) but let me explain what I mean. The terms themselves are actually borrowed from Amreican pop culture. The terms are English approximations of Chinese and Japanese terms for teachers within a fixed hierarchy, e.g., sensei, shihan, etc for the Japanese and sifu, sigung etc. for the Chinese. Within their respective cultural contexts these terms mean something quite different. Sensei for instance means the one who has gone before. Shihan means shining example. Sifu means father-teacher. A sigung is literally grandfather-teacher. It is perhaps unfortunate that the titles themselves were translated as Master and Grandmaster, since in English their connotations are quite different. If I remember rightly, the term master was originally used as a title or rank within the medieval craft guild system. About grandmaster I'm not sure...:-) Now where is this leading with regards to the GMs and Masters of the FMA? For a significant period of time in Philippine history, we were under direct American rule. Which means that among other things English was the main medium of education for a while (and still continues until now). Even with the end of American rule in 1946, American influence was still felt then as it is now. Among other bits and pieces of American pop culture that have found their way into Pinoy consciousness...are the titles Master and Grandmaster. Part of the influence is from the dubbed kungfu movies. Part of the influence is from the English-language American published martial arts media - which have used these titles quite extensively. So yes in a way we do have Grandmasters and Masters. We Pinoys are partly responsible for that since we have borrowed these terms from English. I would suppose that what started as a convenient label acquired a life of its own very soon. Are there truly Pinoy equivalents for Grandmaster and Master? In a literal sense, the answer would be no. But as others on this list have pointed out the title Guro meaning teacher would be the closest. One of the master teachers in our organization (LSAI) referred to our late grandmaster Benjamin Luna Lema as Tatang or grandfather. Usually terms that have their roots in the local kinship system seem to be often applied to the teachers as well. However, does it really matter what title one uses or is applied to one? There are several people here bearing the title grandmaster who are more than capable of showing why they deserve to be called that. Anyway, 25 centavos worth of opinion. Bot __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Bastoneros of Negros Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:35:15 +0300 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, will it be available in DVD? Which region code? As we see more and more of the old masters pass away, I can't understand why they and their styles have not been documented more, so films like this are very valuable. Also, I'd like to see Lionheart films avalable again... Does anyone know what Lionheart titles there are? I think at least "Warriors of Negros", "Contradas" and "Advanced Contradas", anyone know more? - Marko > -----Original Message----- > From: ext Nick Papadakis [mailto:nick@bloodsport.com] > Sent: 15 June, 2005 16:57 > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Bastoneros of Negros > > > > I was very interested to hear of the book about the Bastoneros of > > Negros > > Occidental. I spent several weeks in Negros and traveled around > > meeting and documenting as many Masters as time would allow. The > > documentary is called > > "Kali-Means to Scrape." It will Premiere on July 30th at Kombat > > Instruments Limited's 10th anniversary party. Which you are all > > invited. It will then be entered > > into film festivals around the country. If you would like to come to > > the party that will be held at Valley Martial Arts in North > Hollywood > > July 30th; information will be sent out as the date gets closer. > > > Please contact me at nick@bloodsport.com or look at the > film's page at > > www.bloodsport.com in the articles section. > > Thanks for the greats posts, > > Nick > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:21:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Serrada Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Angel must be spinning in his grave seeing a former student of Serrada claim it was developed my Muslims. Taken from http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1473_0_25_0_C ... The Jedi Arts One of the most popular aspects of the "Star Wars" films are the exciting light-saber duels and swordsmanship (Lucas is an admitted fan of old Samurai films) and martial arts style fighting (which of course originates from the East). As a former student of "Eskrima Serrada" (Stick and Blade fighting developed by Muslims of the Philippines) myself, I see a lot of similarities in the fast-moving and short-range fighting I studied for about a year and a half, and the "invented" art of the Jedi masters. When Anakin fights Count Dooku (Christopher Lee) at the beginning of the last "Star Wars" film, at end of the fight, Anakin applies a disarm and cut that is a technique from Eskrima to Count Dooku's arm. Going back into history, the technical differences between the Japanese/Chinese arts and the Muslim arts of Southeast Asia regions of Indonesia, Philippines, and Malaysia: The Muslim arts of "Pentjak Silat" and Eskrima are based on paying attention to the Limb of the attacker and not an immediate strike to the attacker's head or torso. ... Irfan Rydhan is an architectural designer (and Star Wars fan). He lives in San Jose, California. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:41:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Rodriguez John Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video Clips: Russian martial arts To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net But I its work...!!! and very good indeed... if there are any interested in Systema, you can visit www.russianmartialart.com or www.systemauk.com ... I believe it's one of the best systems against weapons altough the approach of training is different... BTW some FMA drills are similar to some Systema's drills... Jye nigma wrote: I hate the way these cats are practicing: http://website.lineone.net/~paul_genge/Stick%20defence.WMV http://website.lineone.net/~paul_genge/Kick%20defence.WMV http://website.lineone.net/~paul_genge/Defence%20against%20grabs.WMV http://website.lineone.net/~paul_genge/Defence%20against%20grabs.WMV http://website.lineone.net/~paul_genge/Pistol%20defence.WMV http://website.lineone.net/~paul_genge/working%20from%20a%20chair%201.WMV __________________________________________________________________ Jye Nigma ICQ#: 114869914 Current ICQ status: + More ways to contact me __________________________________________________________________ John Charles Wing Tzun EBMAS Cuba --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video Clips: Russian martial arts To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > But I its work...!!! and very good indeed... if there are any interested > in Systema, you can visit www.russianmartialart.com or www.systemauk.com ... > I believe it's one of the best systems against weapons altough the approach > of training is different... BTW some FMA drills are similar to some > Systema's drills... I must admit that I liked the head movement on the pistol defenses, but imho some of the other technique follow thru looked rather sloppy and an excellent way to get cut or stabbed or shot. Hopefully that was just a matter of the player in question. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:28:41 -0400 From: nephalim1@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Thanks for all the feedback....Pinoy Titles.. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Many claims have been made from the sublime to the ridiculous. My preference is guro and punung guro. Whatever your preference, carry it with dignity and defend its justification. In my case, I will do so by accepting and improve what my guro or punong guro thinks I am worthy of. Just my thoughts. Respectfully, Jose Capitulo __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Steve Ames" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video Clips: Russian martial arts Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:01:47 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I hate the way these cats are practicing: Its clearly beginner practice to get acquainted with basic movement concept. Nothing here is moving at an aggresive enough pace to be considered demonstration of anything realistic. That said... > http://website.lineone.net/~paul_genge/Kick%20defence.WMV Why do all of the "defense against kick" stuff require people to kick like that? When you punch even if you put your whole body behind it people still expect your going to pull your fist back to your body. But when you kick they think your going to push through and step down? Craziness. Stepping down may be a possibility if you miss but what if you make contact? Stepping on your oponent isn't going to be stable footing. Kick defense should be practiced against realistic kicks. People don't kick that way unless they've been [mis]trained to. > http://website.lineone.net/~paul_genge/Pistol%20defence.WMV Heh. Get some airsoft and take it up a notch. Let the guy with the gun not stand there like an idiot and see how much of this still works. *sigh* This is why I say its gotta just be beginner stuff to get a feel for the arts movement. Because you'd never show people this stuff and say "you could do this on the street". -steve --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:02:12 -0700 (PDT) From: James Nordstrom To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Video Clips: Russian martial arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The practicing is more like the "No-Touch" Aikido I am seeing more and more of in the Bay Area and Sacramento rather than the intensity I am use to. However, the technique is there as I use or have practiced most of what is one the video tapes. In fact, that little head nod-rotation gun defense thing is something I have not seen before and will now try it out. Cheers Jim Cheers Jim "Taking life on the chin is all fine and well, but when life throws you a pile of shit best learn to bob and weave." "If people would just be half as smart as they think they are, they would be twice as smart as they really are." --------------------------------- Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest