Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:32:19 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #231 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. McDojos and those "other" martial arts (Kes41355@aol.com) 2. Re: Garimot Lubid (jay de leon) 3. RE: Poi (Young Forest) 4. RE: Tabak-Toyuk, and a new addition! (nephalim1@netscape.net) 5. Re: McDojos and those "other" martial arts (jay de leon) 6. Re: McDojos and those "other" martial arts (Steve Kohn) 7. Re: Garimot Lubid (All Blade) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:01:39 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] McDojos and those "other" martial arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Mr. Marsh, No disrespect intended here, but your comment reminded me of an interesting story from a few years back, that I'd like to share with others here... Seems an Eskrima club I used to belong to here in town was invited to practice with a Kyokushinkai club at a local college. Well, for about two weeks before the meeting, the members of this Eskrima club was strutting around the club, bragging about how they couldn't wait to get with this "traditional Karate" class, and show them what "real fighting" was all about. I told these guys that they may want to check their attitudes, because my experience with Kyokushinkai people was that they could be pretty rough customers. Their response? "Hey, they're Karate people, how tough can they be?" I didn't attend, but found out later that the members of our club were soundly trashed by the "Karate people." Afterwards, they were astounded that their art wouldn't work against an obviously inferior (in theory) art, and were pretty downhearted. I am reminded of this instance whenever I see or hear of an art being prematurely judged. We need to respect all arts, as everyone has something to offer, and we never know just how serious another style may practice until we step into their world for a while. Too many times the value of an art is left up simply to theory, and intellectualization becomes the way we rate another art and the players of that art. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 6/29/2005 5:49:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: As fortold by the prophet isaiah jones in chapter 101 34 x Filipino Martial Arts and namely Angeles Eskrima has arrived in Springfield Missouri (and boy do they need it highly populated with "mcdojo's") --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:05:27 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Garimot Lubid To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tipunan instructors scheduled : Samuel Dulay - Manila, Philippines Godofredo Fajardo - Riyadh, Saudi Arabia Edessa Ramos - Zurich, Switzerland Abon Baet - Pembroke Pines, FL Tom Bolden - NY, NY Jerome Barber - Orchard Park, NY Bram Frank - FL Roger Agbulos - LA Christopher Ricketts - San Diego, CA John Jacobo - MD Steve Aron - LA Jay de Leon - LA Possible guest instructors : Rey Galang Felix Valencia Expo instructors scheduled : See http://www.worldfma.com and http://www.arnisador.com . Ramiro Estalilla Myrlino Hufana Narrie Babao Conrad Manaois Raffy Pambuan Vic Ferrer Ariel Mosses Ed Goco Galang Jon Cuenca Alex Ercia Plus friends from MA and other celebrities. Thanks for asking. Jay de Leon 951-894-1452 Ray wrote: > Dozens of FMA masters featured. And those are??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:22:38 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Poi Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >As FMA'ers if you haven't checked out Poi you owe it to yourself to give it >a try and let it show you what it will teach you about your movements and >body mechanics and circular power. ... and embarrassment, you forgot teaching the wielder about embarrassment. Had my first opportunity to try them out last summer, with the crowning moment being getting the ropes tangled, and simultaneously having one weight bopping me in the 'nards while the other caught me in the nose. Yeah, looking good, that's me. On the subject of nunchaku, my first exposure to FMA was a magazine article (in 'Fighting Stars' IIRC) with Guro I talking about why he'd rather just have a stick, given the choice. Years later, when I had started training in Arnis, it was funny to go and reread the article and say "oh, *that's* what he was talking about." Badger Siling Labuyo Arnis --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:55:56 -0400 From: nephalim1@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Tabak-Toyuk, and a new addition! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hey rob, how's the little sabungero doing. is she in need of a ministick? hehehe. see you on saturday, jose "rob mulligan" wrote: >Regarding the tabak-toyuk (nunchaku) issue: >The way I was taught there was none of the spinning that we typically >associate with nunchaku. >Tabak-toyuk can be used for trapping and crushing like Guro Ray related to, >and can be used to hit or  poke at close range with both sticks or held in >one hand and striking with sweeps when held open.  The butt can also be >applied to pressure points just as one would do with the butt of a stick. >Sweeps were usually used as a final shot while weaving back for protection >from the rebound, with little or no spinning involved.   Is spinning useful? >Yes, when it’s used to decelerate the flying end of the “chuck”-  no when >it’s used as fancy fluff. >When taken out of the context of being “chucks”, and just considered another >semi-flexible weapon – ei: a belt with a large buckle.   Learning to deal >with a rebounding weapon and not getting your own nose broken is an >excellent reward for training with the tabak-toyuk. > > >Rob Mulligan >Kwikstik.com > >P.S. We have a new future arnisador  in our home: Keena Kellan Mulligan was >born 06-09-05 and came out swinging at 7 lbs 15 oz.  ”Keena Kellan” >translates as “brave warrior princess” from Gaelic. >“KiKi” and Mommy Yan are both doing very well! >Pics are posted. From my home page, click the “site links” and then follow >the obvious links. >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list,  2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:10:27 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] McDojos and those "other" martial arts To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I will be short here because I have written extensively about this subject (forget where or which forum). But on the subject of "McDojo"s," i mentioned two things. One is that SOME McDojos have commendable children's program. The second is that it is a fallacy to equate a karate gi with McDojo's. I always mention the styles I would not even think of lumping in that category--the shorin-ryu (Latino Gonzalez style originally from Okinawa) karateka I trained with in the Philippines, the original JKA Nishiyama shotokan fighters of the 70's and 80's, Tak Kubota's style, Gordon Doversola's okinawa-te, and the kyokushinkai people I have met in the US. Please do not challenge me if I did not include your MA style in my short list. I am speaking only of my personal experience and styles I have personally encountered. Jay de Leon Kes41355@aol.com wrote: Hi Mr. Marsh, (snipped) . I am reminded of this instance whenever I see or hear of an art being prematurely judged. We need to respect all arts, as everyone has something to offer, and we never know just how serious another style may practice until we step into their world for a while. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 6/29/2005 5:49:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: As fortold by the prophet isaiah jones in chapter 101 34 x Filipino Martial Arts and namely Angeles Eskrima has arrived in Springfield Missouri (and boy do they need it highly populated with "mcdojo's") _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:18:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] McDojos and those "other" martial arts To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kim, You make a great point regarding the judgement of other arts. When I started training in Jun Fan/JKD, I was a complete snob towards other arts. In time I learned to see the beauty in other arts regardless of how non-combative they may have seemed to be on the surface. As a musician, I realized that this is tantamount to criticizing music that is different from what I play, rather than taking the time to see (and learn from) what it had to offer below the surface. Anyone that calls themselves an artist owes it to themselves to learn to appreciate what other arts have to offer. It is no less than stupid not to. I've already argued on the digest with people who claim to have a "complete art", so I doubt that I'll feel compelled to respond to anyone who starts in with that again...but you never know. The really funny thing is that I've seen a hell of a lot of FMA people who are awfully secure in their art, yet usually only stick spar...if at all. Not a lot of 'em demonstrate (much less spar) with the empty hand adaptations of the weapons techniques they purport to know. Many can barely throw a good, solid punch. Being able to kick butt with a stick and kick butt with empty hands are two very different things. For all of the techniques many of us know, the average BJJ white belt could probably take out the average 10 year FMA veteran (at least the American versions). Why? Because they spar more than they theorize and criticize. A curious bunch we are. Just my 2 dollars and 2 cents worth... -Steve Kohn Kes41355@aol.com wrote: Hi Mr. Marsh, No disrespect intended here, but your comment reminded me of an interesting story from a few years back, that I'd like to share with others here... Seems an Eskrima club I used to belong to here in town was invited to practice with a Kyokushinkai club at a local college. Well, for about two weeks before the meeting, the members of this Eskrima club was strutting around the club, bragging about how they couldn't wait to get with this "traditional Karate" class, and show them what "real fighting" was all about. I told these guys that they may want to check their attitudes, because my experience with Kyokushinkai people was that they could be pretty rough customers. Their response? "Hey, they're Karate people, how tough can they be?" I didn't attend, but found out later that the members of our club were soundly trashed by the "Karate people." Afterwards, they were astounded that their art wouldn't work against an obviously inferior (in theory) art, and were pretty downhearted. I am reminded of this instance whenever I see or hear of an art being prematurely judged. We need to respect all arts, as everyone has something to offer, and we never know just how serious another style may practice until we step into their world for a while. Too many times the value of an art is left up simply to theory, and intellectualization becomes the way we rate another art and the players of that art. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 6/29/2005 5:49:15 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: As fortold by the prophet isaiah jones in chapter 101 34 x Filipino Martial Arts and namely Angeles Eskrima has arrived in Springfield Missouri (and boy do they need it highly populated with "mcdojo's") _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "All Blade" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Garimot Lubid Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 03:06:24 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Guro Blade is more confused that is typically the case. This is THE fma event of the year and it is in LA yet Inosanto and Bustillo and Canete and Canete and Gaje and Knaus are absent? Good move at least with Babao and Galang. Guro Blade Always cuts deep >Samuel Dulay - Manila, Philippines >Godofredo Fajardo - Riyadh, Saudi Arabia >Edessa Ramos - Zurich, Switzerland >Abon Baet - Pembroke Pines, FL >Tom Bolden - NY, NY >Jerome Barber - Orchard Park, NY >Bram Frank - FL >Roger Agbulos - LA >Christopher Ricketts - San Diego, CA >John Jacobo - MD >Steve Aron - LA >Jay de Leon - LA > >Possible guest instructors : >Rey Galang >Felix Valencia > >Expo instructors scheduled : See http://www.worldfma.com and >http://www.arnisador.com . >Ramiro Estalilla >Myrlino Hufana >Narrie Babao >Conrad Manaois >Raffy Pambuan >Vic Ferrer >Ariel Mosses >Ed Goco Galang >Jon Cuenca >Alex Ercia _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest