Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 12:22:17 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #238 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: From an article: EPEE FENCING TO IMPROVE YOUR KNIFE SKILLS (jay de leon) 2. Re: Re 2c worth on BJJ (david foggie) 3. Riposte to BJJ Vrs FMA (Peter Gow) 4. kali group near Bragg? (jason couture) 5. From an article: EPEE FENCING TO IMPROVE YOUR KNIFE SKILLS (Jye nigma) (Sean Browne) 6. FMA in Boulder area? (Sean Browne) 7. training with idiots, an apology (malcolm knight) 8. Re: FMA in Boulder area? (Jared Dame) 9. Not Idiotic but rather smart!! (Jorge Penafiel) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 20:10:43 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] From an article: EPEE FENCING TO IMPROVE YOUR KNIFE SKILLS To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just a few points of clarification, please. Please see questions in blue. Thanks, Jay de Leon Jye nigma wrote: EPEE FENCING TO IMPROVE YOUR KNIFE SKILLS Most intelligent students of the knife who have studied arnis/kali and other Asian weapons systems at some point (Normally, when would this be? After a couple of months? Couple of years? After a specific event?)come to the realization that they have no appreciable high-level skills. Yes, they know how to perform myriads of flow drills and fancy movements, but they don't have any real skills when it comes to hand/arm/body coordination, footwork, distancing and timing. (If such is the case, I would be interested what style we are discussing here, but it does not sound like arnis to me. I would like to think these are attributes normally developed in arnis, at least after some "appreciable" amount of time.) Having studied many Asian weapon systems first-hand, I can guarantee that the most cogent and systematic methodology of edged weapons instruction comes from western fencing. I'm not saying to drop what you're doing, but if you have extra time, add fencing to your training regimen. For the person who carries a small knife or folder, the most appropriate system is epee. This is because there are no right-of-way restrictions (I am not familiar with this expression, so please define or describe briefly)(just as in real life) and it focuses primarily on the point (which you should do when using a small knife). (I would not assume anything, but my interpretation of your suggestion seems to be, the small knife is held in the so-called standard or hammer grip, and one would utilize more thrusts than slashes, just like an epee? Is that correct? If so, then how would this suggestion apply to somebody who prefers holding the folder in a reverse grip, and wields the knife in a manner similar to a kubotan or maliit na kahoy? of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 20:21:11 -0700 (PDT) From: david foggie Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re 2c worth on BJJ To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Peter Gow wrote: "Strange though it may seem I was unders the impression that the average BJJ, - qualifier - who had done no other MA except BJJ - is never taught to eye gouge, hit to the throat, strike to the family jewels, bite etc..." Never taught is one thing...but to eye gouge, hit the throat, strike the groin, bite are simply survival techniques which MANY people would use or have used without being taught them in martial arts clases Peter Gow wrote: " Also if the Philipinos have a ground system I would prefer to learn that over BJJ Why? Because the parts of the Philipines have been at War more recently than Brazil or Japan so they have tried and test their techniques in real L&D situations so they know if the technique works or not, just my personal preference that's all." This is obviously from your in-depth experience and training in the fighting arts of the Philippines and BJJ? If my memory serves me correct, you gave up BJJ after only a handful of lessons after ego got in the way of training and you received an injury. Like everything in life, often it is the person performing who will dictate the result. What about the likes of Rickson Gracie.....? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 07:22:38 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Riposte to BJJ Vrs FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jason and others Its really good that you get a kick out of things. Now if you would have read my posting carefully not once did I say that one art was better than any other art but I did mention what differnt people are trained for. You wouldn't send an electrician to do a plumber's jobs - different set of skills.   There are a number of criteria 1. The person that is learning. 2. Who that person trains with! 3. What that person is training for - competition, self defence, survival, kill. 4. What is taught to that person. 5. How well that person can put it all together. 6. Focus of Concentration 7. Aggressiveness of the learner. 8. Ego 9. Adrenilin Dump channelling 10. Pain threshold 11. etc. etc. etc. Additionally if  the person is crosstraining they may be. 1. Picking up and adding/learning techniques 2. Looking for holes in the sytem they are learning - Analysis of the System(s) to exploit weaknesses. The main point being that you can learn MA forever and there will still be something to learn. All this does not include the social/cameraderie of training. Also most of my comments were made by BJJ friends who crosstrain and have stated that the only time they would go to the ground was if there was only one other person there as they feel they would have the advantage on the ground. One of my BJJ friends who has done security for many years actually stated that if you were to go to the ground in a bar you may as well ask the crowd to step on and break your fingers as well as kick you in the ribs a few times - surely this may upset your day a little. The BJJ people I have talked to have one very major concern when they go to the ground outside the dojo and that is that the other person is not carrying a knive as it would be all over red rover before they knew it. On top of this if you have read Julys Blitz you would see an article on page 30 by BJJ's Rigan Machado where he clearly states in black and white that after going to America he incorporated the leg locks and footlocks from Sambo, the takedowns and set-ups from freestyle and Greco Wrestling he woould then bring back these ideas and teach them to the black belts at Gracie Barra and other academies. So therefore BJJ is not the same BJJ as was originally taught to him but has been added to a - modified. But I do agree the bottom line is the person not the style. Train Hard, Peter Gow Australi --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 06:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: jason couture To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] kali group near Bragg? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Daniel Arola, are you part of a kali group around the Ft. Bragg area? If so, get in touch with me. Respond through my e-mail for now. **JASON COUTURE** ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Sean Browne" To: Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 08:26:26 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] From an article: EPEE FENCING TO IMPROVE YOUR KNIFE SKILLS (Jye nigma) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Jye, I guess I don't see it. I originally learned fencing at San Jose State (foil then saber) under Maestro Michael D'Asaro. Then got into Tae Kwon Do and then FMA studying with Inayan but haven't trained in many years now. Epee always seemed the least pratical and most contrived, right of way notwithstanding, i mean you can poke a guy in the toe right? Are you an epee fencer? Certainly the footwork and reaction time is training would be helpful. Sean Browne La Honda, Ca --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Sean Browne" To: Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 08:27:31 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in Boulder area? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Is there any Eskrima training available in the Boulder, Co area? thanks, Sean Browne La Honda, Ca --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "malcolm knight" To: Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:36:23 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] training with idiots, an apology Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Wel , I got the type of response I hoped for , err one thing though I did not mean to imply that my girlfriend is an idiot or anyone else's partner for that matter. I simply meant that its surprising how you can show somebody a number 1 and although it seems simple to you they can't do it. Here is a for instance , doce pares number 1 strike and counter. Strike is to the left temple. Block is to the weapon hand whilst stepping foreward / right , the blocking hand ( with olisi in it ) continues around to stop under left armpit as right hand crosses over left arm to perform the check. The counter strike is then a swift blow to the opponents right side. I tried this with a mate of my missus who said she was interested, she had no training whatsoever but instinctively dropped her weapon hand after my block blocking my counter. Now unless she is a closet escrimador that surprised me. Dunno why really as its the only place for her to go , retract the olisi or drop to a lower point of attack. Need to brush up my tapi skills here I think. Anyway folks thanks for the contributions and keep it coming, lets not get TOO serious but also not too defensive either. Like it has been said its really down to the practicioner and their level of competence. I'm sure there are techniques which are favourite for some that others avois with a vengence. Regards Malcolm K. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 09:40:12 -0600 From: Jared Dame To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMA in Boulder area? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net No, but there is Boulder BJJ with Amal that I would recommend. Jared On 7/4/05, Sean Browne wrote: > > Is there any Eskrima training available in the Boulder, Co area? > > thanks, > > Sean Browne > La Honda, Ca > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > -- Jared Dame jareddame@gmail.com "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." Rene Descartes --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Jorge Penafiel" To: Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:28:09 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Not Idiotic but rather smart!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Actuallly, it's not idiotic but smart counter by our spouses/GF/ room mates to us for playing this "Dummy Role" around the house specially. As in my case , I 'd been playing this act/role since I get married to perfection. Whenever, the wife ask me for anything, my quick response were either who/what/where/dunno/huh??/etc. End results I don't get no more of this "less macho -not my job" stuff to know in the household. The don't bother kind of approach behavior to avoided doing some chores in the house ,,,right?? But in some instances, we macho MA men do ask our mates to help us out to practice at home sometimes cause of dire need of a partner. You know sometimes, we need to show-off or try some technique we tought is neat. Well, with a smile in her face, I could see this in the top of her head caption - now it's pay-back time honey !! So, what happen next??? I get this some out of context frustrations and by name of anything swearing of how could this being be this freaking ?#~*&&... Then,,I realized this woman is just playing me back the role I been doing her along the while.....hehehehe...Man,,,I tell you these creatures are smart to say the least. Jorge Penafiel --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest