Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 03:03:19 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #239 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. EPEE FENCING TO IMPROVE YOUR KNIFE SKILLS (GatPuno@aol.com) 2. Fencing Article (Brian Hamilton) 3. Re: kali group near Bragg? (Daniel Arola) 4. We will get back the wekaf title (Ray) 5. Epee fencing and FMA (Michael Koblic) 6. ellensburg, washington (Gordon Walker) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:27:16 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] EPEE FENCING TO IMPROVE YOUR KNIFE SKILLS Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jye Inigma, said: EPEE FENCING TO IMPROVE YOUR KNIFE SKILLS Most intelligent students of the knife who have studied arnis/kali and other Asian weapons systems at some point come to the realization that they have no appreciable high-level skills. Yes, they know how to perform myriads of flow drills and fancy movements, but they don't have any real skills when it comes to hand/arm/body coordination, footwork, distancing and timing. Having studied many Asian weapon systems first-hand, I can guarantee that the most cogent and systematic methodology of edged weapons instruction comes from western fencing. Well, this is your opinion and you are free to voice out your opinion, Let put it on the realization of the realizm. How many people that Vladimmir killed with his skill. You how much you know about Filipino Martial Arts. I was under the impression, that you telling us FMA that we dont have enough skill in real Knife Fighting, well it only one way to find out my friends. Try us "I am not superman, nor know everything, but telling us that most us FMA is realizing that we dont have enough skills in hand/arm/body coordination. I will repeat this statement that I did while back, I am ready to prove to any Master of fencing, at any type, that FMA is either equally or more realistic in approached in regards of knife or blades. I am totally disagreement with this statements, He probably good to what he does, but hey there some of us are exceptional fighter, not only with knife, stick and hands, in totality of fighting chemistry. I have a chance to sparred some of the fencer beginner and advance, I was told that I was doing is cheating, I was stepping in and out side to side and slash them left in right, until they told me I am not allowed to sparr them anymore. This is becaused they know they cant cut me just like that. My friend, I am willing to spar to anyone that want to show me that they can beat me in this game, I also willing to learn if he can show me that I need more training. I was doing this Arnis for all of life, I broke the rules of any eskrimadores in Laguna, I refused to acquired Anting-anting to show this masters that skill is better to acquired rather believeing that Anting-anting would do the rest for you. In my experienced, I have not practice any other Martial arts, but Arnis, Eskrima and Buno, I tought is not martial arts, until I met Remy Presas on 1972, in in Manila. I got an opportunity to see the diffent Martial arts in Manila, and play with them, to their game and my game, so far I never felt in way that their far strong than Filipino Martial Arts. You probably seen only few of the non-sense drill of the so called Modern Founder of FMA and you already made your judgement about FMA in general. Well, I dont think is appropriate to tell us FMA that our skills is not enough to face the real situation. I experienced many times, a knife attack, multiple opponent, and got cut, stub but I was surprise that the skill that I earned in Eskrima, keep me alive through all those years. I took this understatement about FMA is a challenge, well if it is let it be. I am ready to show everyone that I am willing to be one to test that skill of FMA against effee, and other swords, against FMA weapons. I refused to swallowed this claimed, I will stand to what I believed. I was able to defend my title for seven years in the Philippines in Un-padded Stick fighting Champion of Laguna, I was put to prison defending myself against 10 skilled opponent. I have student that I put to sparred against three person and he easily defeated them, we practiced how to defend to what common weapon on the street, I your efee master can fight multiple then, I would agree that he is ready to a real deal. I will repeat this again, and again, I am willing to spar to a fencer anytime. still stand up to now. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International Garimot Arnis Training Group International World Harimaw Buno Fedration --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:05:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Hamilton To: escrima digest Subject: [Eskrima] Fencing Article Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Most intelligent students of the knife who have studied arnis/kali and other Asian weapons systems at some point come to the realization that they have no appreciable high-level skills. Yes, they know how to perform myriads of flow drills and fancy movements, but they don't have any real skills when it comes to hand/arm/body coordination, footwork, distancing and timing." Now am I being overly sensitive or was that first paragraph kinda a slap in the face? :) I've worked a little with fencing people and realized that my thrusting needs some work and that it is a valuble addition to my techniques. Thrusting really seems pretty good at jamming some angles. I like training with other systems/people makes me think; which isn't always a bad thing :) my two cents -Brian ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 14:40:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] kali group near Bragg? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net you got it, Jay... Daniel jason couture wrote: Daniel Arola, are you part of a kali group around the Ft. Bragg area? If so, get in touch with me. Respond through my e-mail for now. **JASON COUTURE** ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 19:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] We will get back the wekaf title Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tuesday, July 05, 2005 We will get back Wekaf title in Orlando By Mike T. Limpag Sun.Star Correspondent After losing the overall title to USA in last year's 8th World Eskrima Kali Arnis Federation Championships in home soil, grandmaster Diony Canete wants to return the favor in next year's edition in Orlando, Florida. "If we can field 80 to 90 fighters, we have a chance we'll regain the overall crown," Canete said. "USA fielded an entry each in each category while we didn't, that's why they won the overall trophy." Canete said they will also seek financial support from the City Government for next year's championship at the Dolphin Hotel inside Disneyland on July 6-11, 2006. "We have always supported arnis. Although we really can't give them a hundred percent support, we will help them. We could also ask corporate sponsors," Councilor Jack Jakosalem said. "We are also hoping that the championships be held here again, but since it's in Florida, we'll just help them,I'm hoping they can bring back the title," Jakosalem said. The Florida championships will attract some 700 to 1,000 athletes from 30 countries, a stark increase to the 500 entries from 25 countries last year. Next year's championship will also be aired over ESPN after Wekaf USA and Canete showed the sports cable giant the documentaries made by BBC and Discovery Channel about the sport. "They have always wanted to air arnis, but they haven't seen one yet," Canete said. In another development, the Filipino Chamber of Commerce in Florida is eyeing Tomas Osmena to be the guest of honor during the opening ceremonies of the event. Meanwhile, Canete welcomed the move of the Cebu City Council to encourage the Department of Education to include arnis in a curriculum for elementary and high schools. "That is a very good move," said Canete, who applauded when Jakosalem informed him of the plan during yesterday's press conference. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 19:45:34 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Epee fencing and FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Most intelligent students of the knife who have studied arnis/kali and other Asian weapons systems at some point come to the realization that they have no appreciable high-level skills. Yes, they know how to perform myriads of flow drills and fancy movements, but they don't have any real skills when it comes to hand/arm/body coordination, footwork, distancing and timing. Having studied many Asian weapon systems first-hand, I can guarantee that the most cogent and systematic methodology of edged weapons instruction comes from western fencing. I'm not saying to drop what you're doing, but if you have extra time, add fencing to your training regimen. For the person who carries a small knife or folder, the most appropriate system is epee. This is because there are no right-of-way restrictions (just as in real life) and it focuses primarily on the point (which you should do when using a small knife)." For reasons below I beg to differ to a large extent. Please note that I do not claim any authority by the virtue of distinction in either FMA or fencing, it is just a point of view I have recently taken up fencing, partly because I have always wanted to and never had the opportunity before, partly for the reasons stated above: to supplement my FMA training. I quickly learned to love it: I did not realize how much I missed the full competitive bouts. Even with my decrepit body I am able to compete all out with the consequent adrenaline rush. The club I belong to is fairly liberal (the only East European there is myself :-) and I although I was started on foil with the French grip, I was allowed to try all the weapons quite early. In general I find that I can hold my own with the foil, but in epee I have had my rear kicked something terrible. I could not understand it at first, as I thought with my FMA training I should fit in with the epee just as the original post states. There are however major differences in which the classical fencing uses its pointed implements and I have been trying to unlearn a number of habits from FMA. For instance, with the knife one tends to keep one's arm tight in and flash it out in a stab or a snap cut after the footwork got one within a striking distance. With the foil and epee one generally extends the arm first and the attack is delivered by the footwork (a lunge). In fact, keeping one's arm exteded with epee is a must, else the oponent will nail your bent arm for a touch. With knife, if one did this, I suspect that the arm would pretty much get cut off early. The bell guard of the epee makes a big difference to the tactics. My other problem is that one is initially encouraged to use the French grip. The way the weapons are held is quite unnatural, in fact after 3 months I ended up with a tendonitis of the extensor carpi ulnaris. Not surprising that most competitive fencers change to the pistol grip. This is quite different from most knife grips I have ever tried. Live hand use is illegal. The footwork is linear for most part, as one would expect on a piste that is 6' wide, not triangular. The one weapon that I found fitted my previous FMA experience is in fact the sabre. Yes, the target is limited to above the waist, yes there are right-of-way rules, but from the beginning I used the saber as a large knife (it is that light) with considerable success. Again, there are some differences in techniques, e.g. a stick roof block tends to have the hand higher than the business stick end whereas with the sabre it is the other way round, mainly due to the hand guard. I am sure there are many others which I am still to discover. All in all, I think western fencing is an awesome way to develop attributes such as reflexes, eye-hand coordination under stress (poking at a tennis ball with a 6" knife is easy, with an epee it is not), explosive linear footwork and aerobic conditioning. It is a great way to blow off steam and a way to actually fight without too much chance of serious injury. But is it the ultimate answer to knife training? I doubt it. Michael Koblic, Campbell River, B. C. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 22:19:02 -0600 From: Gordon Walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] ellensburg, washington Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, I would like to know if there are any fma instructors in Ellensburg, Washington. I have corresponded with a Hapkido practitioner there and he's wanting to do some training and set some info on the Filipino arts. Any seminar announcements would be good too. Please send a private message, just to keep the digest clutter to a minimum, if you please. Regards, Gordon --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest