Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:40:29 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #258 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Right to defend ourselves (Michael Macro) 2. Re: Eskrima digest, (Daniel Arola) 3. Re: Colonial period? (Ken Borowiec/Rudolph Research Analytical) 4. Re: Eskrima digest, (Aaron Alejandro) 5. Re: Eskrima digest, (Djinji Brown) 6. Re: Right to defend ourselves (WoodyTX) 7. Re: Right to defend ourselves (buz_ed_alias@mac.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Macro" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Right to defend ourselves Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:06:44 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Very itneresting, Cheers If you get a chance check out the criminal code section 37 i think, strike back first policy if I remember correctly? >From: Loki Jorgenson >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Right to defend ourselves >Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:15:03 -0700 > >As I recall, Jefferson's point of guaranteeing the right of the populace to >defend itself was to ward off invasion by other nations (such as Britain >and France at the time) and protect itself from internal agents of those >nations. It was standard practice in colonial days to prohibit the bearing >of arms and training in arms by the citizenry and so enshrining that right >constitutionally becomes a very anti-colonial statement. > >This case being somewhat distinct from the current need for members of a >society to protect themselves from other members of the same society (which >has been a universal need but dealt with a in a variety of different ways >socially). > >In the case of the proposed Canadian legislation, it appears that this >particular approximation of justice we call "law" has poor behaviour >outside of the narrow context it was intended for (such as cage matches). >The usual remedy is a visible and accessible legislative process with ready >input from the people. I doubt there is any conscious intention to strip >people of the right to defend themselves per se - it's just not a big deal >up here. > >I expect we'll be able to deal with it reasonably. Otherwise God help a >politician standing before a riled Canadian!!! > >>-- __--__-- >> >>Message: 1 >>Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:09:02 -0700 (PDT) >>From: Wylie Mitchell >> >>A thought about freedom to protect yourself can be summed up with this >>American quote: >> >>" It is an axiom in my mind, that our liberty can never be safe but in the >>hands of the people themselves, and that, too, of the people with a >>certain degree of instruction. This it is the business of the State to >>effect, and on a general plan." — JEFFERSON : in a letter to Washington, >>January 4, 1786. >> >>I believe the intruction mentioned by Mr. Jefferson includes: the right to >>learn defend yourself and to hold the government accountable for itself >>throught the people to uphold this right. >> >>I believe Canada as our Northern brethern, and I do hope this buisness of >>the good people of Canada being stripped of this right to defend and >>practice will be dropped soon. Good Luck! >> >>Wylie Mitchell, TMAA >> >> >> >-- > maelstrom \ >Loki Jorgenson martial _ \ Pekiti-Tirsia kali >loki@maelstromcore.com arts / O_/ Dog Brothers MA >www.maelstromcore.com \ Inosanto Academy (604) >250-4642 \ silat Jati Wisesa > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.5/58 - Release Date: 7/25/2005 >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft® SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:45:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Eskrima digest, To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net try getting in touch with Pekiti Tirsia instructor, Rudy Salazar. His email pasted below. Tell him Daniel Arola sent you. salazarrm@uthscsa.edu Daniel Arola http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DAMAG_Kali_Stickfighting "Take the lickin and keep on stickin"-DAMAG INC Fayetteville NC TJ Reid wrote: Hello All, First time writer long time reader. I was wondering if anyone knew if there were any Panantukan or any other empty hand filipino matial art anywhere in San Antonio, Texas. Also, can anyone tell me where to get escrima sticks besides rattan. I would like to get something heavy and high density like bahi, kamagong, or even swords like, kampilans or a pinuti. TJ --- eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to > eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." > ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Ken Borowiec/Rudolph Research Analytical" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Colonial period? Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:44:46 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> It was standard practice in colonial days to prohibit >> the bearing of arms and training in arms by the citizenry and so >> enshrining that right constitutionally becomes a very anti-colonial >> statement. > > The US colonial period? Ummm, no, that is incorrect. > > The US colonial period is defined as period the from 1600 to 1775. The > bearing of arms and training in same was encouraged (for males) and even > required if you ventured very far from the limits of the few small towns > and cities that existed in North American during this time period. > > NYC was the largest town in what became the US, and it only had a > population > of ~20,000 in 1775. Guns were also quite expensive during that period so most people other than militia could not afford a firing weapon. Kenny --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Aaron Alejandro" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Eskrima digest, Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:24:54 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net TJ, Here's a couple of resource which may assist. Guro Harley Elmore is putting out a series of DVD/VHS which explore the 12 areas of Lacoste/Inosanto Kali. Included in that mix is a tape on Panantukan. You can access his DVDs/VHSs at www.warriorswaytx.com. Although about an hour and hour and a half from San Antonio, there are some options in the Austin area. Larry St. Clair has a program in Austin, TX -- you can learn more at http://www.masites.com/mwasd/index.cfm. Also, I have a training group in Georgetown, TX that meets on Thursday evenings -- you can learn more about us at www.execselfdefense.com. Good luck, Aaron Alejandro ----- Original Message ----- From: "TJ Reid" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 8:18 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Eskrima digest, > Hello All, > > First time writer long time reader. I was wondering > if anyone knew if there were any Panantukan or any > other empty hand filipino matial art anywhere in San > Antonio, Texas. Also, can anyone tell me where to get > escrima sticks besides rattan. I would like to get > something heavy and high density like bahi, kamagong, > or even swords like, kampilans or a pinuti. > > TJ > > > --- eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > >> Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to >> eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, >> visit >> >> > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body >> 'help' to >> eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it >> is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:09:34 -0700 From: Djinji Brown To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Eskrima digest, Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Wednesday, July 27, 2005, at 11:14PM, TJ Reid wrote: >Hello All, > >First time writer long time reader. I was wondering >if anyone knew if there were any Panantukan or any >other empty hand filipino matial art anywhere in San >Antonio, Texas. Also, can anyone tell me where to get >escrima sticks besides rattan. I would like to get >something heavy and high density like bahi, kamagong, >or even swords like, kampilans or a pinuti. > >TJ > > Hey thats some real beautiful wood you're talking about, I would love to get my hands on a pair of bahi or kamagong sticks. I bought something once i was told was a kamagong stick, heavy, dark brown . dense, and still thin. But Im really not sure. Last year in NYC it was kinda of hard to get them. But check out Bowery Martial arts in NYC..do a google search or something , and if you get the info..ask for a guy named Nelson.Maybe he can help you. From I understand that particular wood somes straight from the Phillipines and has to be ordered. not a straight lead but a lead non the less. hope it helps a little enjoy your carenza Djinji B. the D is silent.. >--- eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > >> Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to >> eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, >> visit >> >> >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body >> 'help' to >> eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it >> is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." >> > > > > >____________________________________________________ >Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:16:15 -0500 From: WoodyTX To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Right to defend ourselves Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net No, the RKBA was guaranteed for a number of reasons, primarily as a defence against a strong central government, which was a fear at the time among the independant Colonies. "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington "Oppressors can tyrannize only when they achieve a standing army, an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace." - James Madison "As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms." - Tench Coxe "''[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.'' - James Madison Woody On 7/28/05, Loki Jorgenson wrote: > > As I recall, Jefferson's point of guaranteeing the right of the populace > to defend itself was to ward off invasion by other nations (such as > Britain and France at the time) and protect itself from internal agents > of those nations. It was standard practice in colonial days to prohibit > the bearing of arms and training in arms by the citizenry and so > enshrining that right constitutionally becomes a very anti-colonial > statement. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: buz_ed_alias@mac.com Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:10:25 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Right to defend ourselves Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Loki writes: > As I recall, Jefferson's point of guaranteeing the right of the > populace > to defend itself was to ward off invasion by other nations (such as > Britain and France at the time) and protect itself from internal > agents > of those nations. It was standard practice in colonial days to > prohibit > the bearing of arms and training in arms by the citizenry and so > enshrining that right constitutionally becomes a very anti-colonial > statement. I can't speak to Jefferson specifically, but George Mason, author of the Virginia Declaration of Rights which most acknowledge to be the model for the Bill of Rights, was thinking of more than than external enemies. Founder of the Fairfax Militia, Mason clearly felt an armed populace conferred benefits large and small and joined with the Anti- Federalists in insisting on the addition of the Bill of Rights. Mason, alas, was not a grandstander as were so many of his founding peers--he insisted that all of his papers be burned upon his death, for instance--so his exact feeling are hard to document. However his surviving published documents, as well as those of the people he allied himself with make it clear they felt an armed populace was the best defense against everything from criminals to local jurisdictions run amok to invading foreign powers. Folks seeking to research Second Amendment primary sources can start there search at www.guncite.com. It contains a wealth of information, including the following quotes: A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks. --- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors. We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; ---Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors [W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor... ---George Mason, from the Virginia ratifying convention June 2 through June 26, 1788 Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest