Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:37:42 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #293 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (Ray) 2. Re: Bootleg FMA DVDs (iPat) 3. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (Pierre Honeyman) 4. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (Pierre Honeyman) 5. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (Ken Borowiec/Rudolph Research Analytical) 6. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (Ray) 7. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (Pierre Honeyman) 8. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (WoodyTX) 9. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (WoodyTX) 10. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (Pierre Honeyman) 11. Re: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (Andrew Maddox) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:51:11 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Now I know that Ray and many others on this list have gone on about how a > "good" FMA instructor makes sure he includes teaching information about > judicious use of lethal force when teaching blade arts, but apparently their > advice hasn't reached your neck of the woods yet. Not just FMA, but MA in general. But then you don't even find that all tactical firearms training schools teach the proper use of deadly force. When I first attended Gunsite I mentioned in my class summary that this topic was left off. Their response was that it was not needed... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:00:42 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Bootleg FMA DVDs Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net i agree You just need to search Ebay to see the variety of bootlegs. We did a check on Erik Paulson and got evidence of one guy making £3000 worth out of bootlegs. So far he has adhered to our request to stop. Meanwhile some of the people who make the dvds are struggling to pay their way through life. On 8/29/05, sierraecho1@comcast.net wrote: > Buying, and especially asking for bootleg copies of something is really so uncool. This is where a live, flesh and blood Guro would come in handy vs. the DVDs so he could kick your butt for thinking of hair-brained schemes. A martial artist is concerned with things that genuinely work and should want to pay recognition if not royalties to the person whose original ideas they are assimilating or studying. Most of these DVDs aren't that expensive. Also, you get what you pay for. Someone should set up a paypal site to sell bootlegs and then send a DVD of those stick figure fighters dancing around doing the robot and hitting each other. Stickfighting yeah....Be an original. Be Genuine. You'll get more chicks. > Henry in DC > Stay sticky. -- iPat "Why are we ambitious? Why do we want to succeed, to be somebody? Why do we struggle to be superior? Why all this effort to assert oneself, whether directly, or through an ideology or the State? Is not this self-assertion the main cause of our conflict and confusion? Without ambition, would we perish? Can we not physically survive without being ambitious?" --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 08:29:49 -0700 From: Pierre Honeyman To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quoting Marc MacYoung : > And then Pierre chimed in > > You can be as pedantic as you wish, Marc. I really don't care. > > Pierre, I'd like to introduce you to Master of Arms Rez Johnson...you two > might have a lot to talk about since you apparently have some similar views > about investigating the complexities of violence. Have fun guys... You can leave your lecturing tone of "voice" for your website Marc. This here is a discussion group where people who think you are wrong are going to tell you so. If you can't deal with that, then leave. I posed a legitimate question, and you spent considerable verbiage not answering that question. Obviously your ego gets in the way of civil discourse. Pierre --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 08:45:19 -0700 From: Pierre Honeyman To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quoting Ray : > But then you don't even find that all tactical firearms training schools > teach the proper use of deadly force. When I first attended Gunsite I > mentioned in my class summary that this topic was left off. Their response > was that it was not needed... Not only is it not needed, but it's too "specific" to be taught in a general "MA" class. Use of Force varies from country to country, State to State, and from prosecuting attorney to prosecuting attorney. Trying to teach something ironclad to civilians is a huge waste of time. Not only that, who, as a Martial Arts instructor, has the time or the inclination to get that kind of serious legal education for themselves? IMO teach the techniques to people who don't make you nervous; morality has to come from their parents. Pierre --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Ken Borowiec/Rudolph Research Analytical" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:48:16 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I seemed to have missed how this conversation started. Can anyone fill me in? Kenny ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog >> Now I know that Ray and many others on this list have gone on about how a >> "good" FMA instructor makes sure he includes teaching information about >> judicious use of lethal force when teaching blade arts, but apparently >> their >> advice hasn't reached your neck of the woods yet. > > Not just FMA, but MA in general. > > But then you don't even find that all tactical firearms training schools > teach the proper use of deadly force. When I first attended Gunsite I > mentioned in my class summary that this topic was left off. Their > response > was that it was not needed... > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:14:48 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > But then you don't even find that all tactical firearms training schools > > teach the proper use of deadly force. When I first attended Gunsite I > > mentioned in my class summary that this topic was left off. Their response > > was that it was not needed... > > Not only is it not needed, but it's too "specific" to be taught in a general > "MA" class. Use of Force varies from country to country, State to State, and > from prosecuting attorney to prosecuting attorney. Trying to teach something > ironclad to civilians is a huge waste of time. One simple counter example is Mas Ayoob's LFI courses. It can be done, it is done and it is done very well. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:26:43 -0700 From: Pierre Honeyman To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quoting Ray : > > > But then you don't even find that all tactical firearms training schools > > > > teach the proper use of deadly force. When I first attended Gunsite I > > > mentioned in my class summary that this topic was left off. Their > response > > > was that it was not needed... > > > > Not only is it not needed, but it's too "specific" to be taught in a > general > > "MA" class. Use of Force varies from country to country, State to State, > and > > from prosecuting attorney to prosecuting attorney. Trying to teach > something > > ironclad to civilians is a huge waste of time. > > One simple counter example is Mas Ayoob's LFI courses. It can be done, it > is done and it is done very well. Ok, I'll take your word for it. Not having taken Mr. Ayoobs courses. Pierre --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:31:54 -0500 From: WoodyTX To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That's my opinion, too, but the courts don't give a damned about our opinions. Just be as aware of your legal surroundings as you are your physical ones. I'd be quicker to defend myself with lethal force in Texas than I would in Massachussets. Woody On 8/30/05, Pierre Honeyman wrote: > IMO teach the techniques to people who don't make you nervous; morality has to > come from their parents. > > Pierre --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:50:47 -0500 From: WoodyTX To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Good review from a gun-shy urban Yankee: http://www.bostonphoenix.com/archive/features/99/11/25/LFI.html (Really, I'm not trying to threadjack.) :-) Woody On 8/30/05, Pierre Honeyman wrote: > > One simple counter example is Mas Ayoob's LFI courses. It can be done, it > > is done and it is done very well. > > Ok, I'll take your word for it. Not having taken Mr. Ayoobs courses. > > Pierre > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:09:17 -0700 From: Pierre Honeyman To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quoting WoodyTX : > That's my opinion, too, but the courts don't give a damned about our > opinions. Well we can't control the courts, and damned if I'm going to die because the law says I can't defend myself. > Just be as aware of your legal surroundings as you are your physical > ones. I'd be quicker to defend myself with lethal force in Texas than > I would in Massachussets. I wouldn't; if I have to defend myself with lethal force my location isn't exactly relevant at that point in time. Pierre --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:02:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Maddox To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Pierre Honeyman wrote: > Quoting Ray : > >>> "MA" class. Use of Force varies from country to country, State to State, >> and >>> from prosecuting attorney to prosecuting attorney. Trying to teach >> something >>> ironclad to civilians is a huge waste of time. >> >> One simple counter example is Mas Ayoob's LFI courses. It can be done, it >> is done and it is done very well. > > Ok, I'll take your word for it. Not having taken Mr. Ayoobs courses. > And if you want to be more precise about things, if you're teaching a formal class or running a school, whatever - check with your local law enforcement agency. County police, Sheriff's department, what have you. Contact them (or if you have a student who's a LEO) and see if you can't arrange a guest lecture from one of their academy instructors. That way you can get a professional in the field to give accurate information specific to where you are about what's considered justified and when, in response to what, all the details. Maybe also get an experienced lawyer (not sure if a defense or prosecution type would be best, maybe do one of each) to do a similar talk. Or have a panel discussion with all three, something like that - I'll bet the LEOs would be glad to send somebody over for free, the lawyers I wouldn't bet on 8-) Just throwing a couple of ideas... ND -- Andrew Maddox, martialarts_dc-owner at yahoogroups.com http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/martialarts_dc/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest