Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 09:40:16 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #305 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Surviving Edged Weapons (Ken Grubb) 2. Re: One last law question.-register my ass! (Felipe Jocano) 3. Big blades (Michael Koblic) 4. Re: tenspeed and brownshoe (Felipe Jocano) 5. The Great Raid (JKLK) 6. Hurricane Survivor Benefit Seminar (Leslie L. Buck Jr. TKA) 7. RE: Surviving Edged Weapons (Jeff Hazen) 8. RE: RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (1@msfencing.org) 9. Re: Books Again! (Bill Lowery) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Ken Grubb" To: Cc: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Surviving Edged Weapons Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:16:30 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jeff, I found only two sections of RCW that deal with blade length. Obviously, city and county statutes can and do vary more widely. http://www.leg.wa.gov/rcw/index.cfm http://search.leg.wa.gov/pub/textsearch/default.asp 9.94A.602 is titled "Deadly weapon special verdict -- Definition" and addresses special sentencing when one is CONVICTED of a crime while armed. Chapter 9.95 is "Indeterminate Sentences" and 9.95.040 is "Terms fixed by board -- Minimums for certain cases". Again this deals with additional sentencing for convictions while armed. As for your what if scenario, about a shooter getting a murder charge because his assailant didn't have a legally defined deadly weapon, it just ain't that way up here. Washington state has a very permissive use of force statute, and considerable case law to back it up. There's a LOT in 9A.16 "Defenses". 9A.16.050 specifically addresses when homicide is justifiable. AOJP - Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy, Preclusion. If these have all been "checkmarked", then a homicide is justified. A knife of any blade length, and one could cite the 9-11 hijackers as an example, is a lethal threat and represents the Ability to kill. Inside "Tueller" distance, a knife clearly represents Opportunity. Throw in Jeopardy, and if Preclusion isn't possible, voila. In practice, the deadly force statutes in Washington are and have been enforced fairly and justly, IMHO. The cases where I've seen a prosecution and conviction for what may have seemed like a justifiable shooting, as the facts came out it became very clear that the shooter was in the wrong, and not by a little bit. I haven't been following the matter for long, but I can certainly steer ya towards folks that have. Pop on in at the WA-CCW list and chat with Dave Workman (NRA and Gunweek) or Joe Waldron (CCRKBA). http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wa-ccw/ Ken Grubb Bellevue, WA "If guns kill people then my pencil is responsible for misspelled words." -- Words of wisdom from Larry the Cable Guy -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Hazen [mailto:avedis@myuw.net] Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 07:15 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Surviving Edged Weapons DA: My question is, since DA: a) a knife is also considered a lethal force weapon and In the Revised Code of Washington, there is a list of lethal weapons, which includes the line item "knife with a blade 3 inches or longer in length", but then also states that anything else could be considered a lethal weapon by a jury, even if it's not on the list. So while the guy with the 2.875" Spyderco Delica may still get charged with 'assault with a deadly weapon' if he lives, if he ends up dead, the guy with the gun will probably be charged with murder since the other guy wasn't carrying a 'lethal weapon' (even though in the hands of someone trained in Eskrima, it is *quite* the deadly weapon). IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer), but I can't see it happening any other way if something like this ever transpired and made it to court (at least in WA). --jeff -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 2005-09-02 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 23:28:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] One last law question.-register my ass! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hehehe...isn't there something in the Geneva convention about the use of gas in warfare? Does this qualify as a weapon of mass destruction? :-) agree with your last line though ;-) Bot --- Daniel Arola wrote: > Hands registered as lethal weapons? > My ass registers lethal gas depending on what I eat > and drink. Should that be government regulated also? > whatabunchofbullshit! > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 23:50:39 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Big blades Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Those who are partial to the occasional indulgence in looking for "Non-existent solutions to imaginary problems" might want to check out the Cold Steel DVD "Fighting with cutlass and sabre". The first DVD is taught mainly by Anthony DeLongis and it is one of the best introductions to fighting with big blades I have ever seen (the only one?). DeLongis seems not only to know his stuff but he is able to communicate it in a clear and concise manner. In the special features section, during a sparing session, he also demonstrates that he can walk the walk (IMHO). I thought his part of the DVD outweighs any objections one might have to the remainder of the material. Now I know what to do when faced with the charge of the Light Brigade or when accosted by Long John Silver... Michael Koblic, Campbell River, B. C. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:01:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] tenspeed and brownshoe To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Since you guys are talking about a show that was 1980; that was one that was never aired here in the Philippines (we do get a lot of American TV programs aired here) But for some reason the line about registering the hands as lethal weapons has been around since before the 1980s. At least as far as I know. To stir things up a bit...Maybe one contribution to this urban myth comes from a book that was published in the 1970s (I think). It's called Moving Zen: Karate As A Way To Gentleness, written by C.W. Nicol. Very fine book about a Westerner's experience learning shotokan karate in Japan at the Japan Karate Association. One passage in the book states that upon reaching first dan, the practitioner is registered at the local police station. The idea here is that a karate practitioner, because of his/her training, can potentially cause damage to a lot of people and therefore has to be kept under surveillance. Another potential source - My sifu once lent me some copies of a kung fu magazine published in Hong Kong in the 1970s. One issue contained an article about the founding of the HKCMAA - Hong Kong Chinese Martial Arts Association. The article stated that at the time, Chinese martial arts were associated with gangs, particularly the Triads. Hence, police often kept martial arts clubs under surveillance. The formation of the HKCMAA was meant to promote a change in the image and practice of the Chinese martial arts, away from the association with gang activity and toward the health and strength of the people. A (much) later article in the Journal of Asian Martial Arts also mentioned the association of the Chinese martial arts with gang activity. In this case, the article mentioned that the police often got copies of membership lists from the various martial arts clubs as a means of keeping track of the members. While pop media certainly contributes to this urban legend, I think that while the various karate and kung fu systems made it over there to the US, the stories that went along with the systems also made it there and then circulated throughout the pop culture scene. Including this one. Whoever wrote the script for Tenspeed and Brownshoe must have actually picked this one up somewhere and worked it into the show. Now where did I put my registration papers? :-) Bot --- Daniel Arola wrote: > Count me in. I remember that old show. > > Daniel Arola __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 09:55:19 -0400 From: "JKLK" To: Subject: [Eskrima] The Great Raid Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I saw the movie The Great Raid and thought it was a good movie. There are Philippine Guerilla's in the movie along with the underground resistance. There is history involved as well surrounding MacArthur's return. The closing scenes are actual footage of the rescued prisoners and it makes the film quite interesting adding to the realism of what the Rangers and the Resistance/Guerilla's accomplished. This was particularly of interest to me as I am an old Ranger (25-27 yrs. ago) who participated on the Iran mission with Delta Force to rescue our hostages when they were taken captive in 1979. It's a good film and I recommend it. Jim Kinney Atienza Kali, Woodbridge, NJ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 09:08:54 -0500 From: "Leslie L. Buck Jr. TKA" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Hurricane Survivor Benefit Seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For any of you in the Texas and nearby areas, the Texas Kali Association will be hosting a benefit seminar in Austin, Texas on September 11. The seminar will be from 10am ­ 2:30pm and feature short sessions in Kali, Pencak Silat, Aikido, Kenpo, and possibly Capoeira and other arts. The cost is $25 and all proceeds will go to the American Red Cross. More information will be posted within the next few days at www.TexasKali.org. If you cannot attend, please host your own benefit seminar to help those in need or simply donate at www.redcross.org. Thank you, Leslie Buck Texas Kali Association leslie@texaskali.org --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 07:22:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Hazen To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Surviving Edged Weapons Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Sat, 3 Sep 2005, Ken Grubb wrote: KG: Jeff, KG: I found only two sections of RCW that deal with blade length. Obviously, KG: city and county statutes can and do vary more widely. Yes, I've perused them online before. I agree with your interpretation of them; however, I believe you should expect to be charged by the D.A. with the worst, and then have the jury acquit you, rather than expect the D.A. to not do anything about it because it was obviously within your rights under the RCW. --jeff "Any feature is a bug unless you can turn it off." -Heuer --__--__-- Message: 8 From: <1@msfencing.org> To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:26:35 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm without power (and a lot of other things as well) due to Katrina which was still a category two hurricane when it passed through Jackson (the town we fled to) so I haven't been able to reply and this one must be short to spare the battery in my laptop. >-----Original Message----- >From: Marc MacYoung [mailto:marcmacyoung@earthlink.net] >> So you are saying they were playing around? >> Sounds very childish to me. >No I'm saying it was a consensual fight. It was two guys in a sleazy bar >who got into it. Just as I thought. Childish. Could have been avoided. >> If anyone attacks me and puts me in a head lock I will consider it a life >> and death situation since I wont have any way of knowing their full >> intent. >It may come as a surprise to you but it is possible to get in a physical >confrontation without dying. It's called losing a fight... Obviously we are talking about two very different things, you about consensual fighting, me about a surprise attack. I don't go to bars and other places where folks tend to get into fights. I don't have the ego problem that tends to escalate minor confrontations into fights. Other than in high school, the very few times potential confrontations have occurred in my life I have simply ignored them and walked on by. So the only time in my life when I would need to fight is for self-defense not some sophomoric consensual playing around. If someone attacks me I have no way of knowing their intent. So I must assume that it is of the worst kind and stop them using whatever is available to me. This is especially the case since whenever I am out and about I am almost always with my wife and kids. I will always err on the side of their and my safety. When someone chooses to be an attacker they are taking on their own self the responsibility for whatever happens to them since they initiated the violent confrontation. >Quite frankly, I don't give a rat's ass on your definition of self->defense. Nor I yours, nor your smart mouth. But I'll let it slide, since I don't want to participate in a childish consensual fight. :-) >... In court, the only definition of >self-defense that matters is the courts. The court's definition doesn't matter a lick if you or your loved ones are dead. I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. >So you're saying anytime you feel threatened you'll stab people? A threat and an attack are two different things. I gave the rest of your e-mail a cursory reading and I think we are talking about two different scenarios. I must go and reply to many more e-mails before my laptop battery runs down. Blessings, Rez Johnson "Standing guard on old, forgotten roads, that no one travels anymore." The Fencing Master, by Arturo Perez Rez Johnson, M d'A Headmaster: Mississippi Academy of Arms President: United States Traditional Fencing Association Certified Fencing Instructor: (USTFA, TFI, AAI, USFCA) Certified Fencing Master Apprentice: (USTFA, USFCA) Teaching Classical Fencing and Historical Swordsmanship since 1980 Modern Sport Fencing Coach from 1980 - 2002 Mississippi Academy of Arms P.O. Box 955 Pelahatchie, MS 39145-0955 E-Mail: 1@MSFencing.org Academy Website: http://MSFencing.org USTFA Website: http://TraditionalFencing.org --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Bill Lowery" To: Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 15:45:09 +0100 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Books Again! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Kit, >Classic Arnis:The Legacy of Placido Yambao-Reynalodo S. Galang 2004< Yep, bought that one recently too! I must revise my list. There have been loads of books published since I originally typed up that list :-) Bill -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.16/83 - Release Date: 26/08/2005 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest