Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:31:15 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #310 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: Grappling and ol Red Dog (jay de leon) 2. RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog (Marc MacYoung) 3. Re:Grappling and knives (Jonathan Kessler) 4. Silat (Khalkee@netscape.net) 5. Caught Off Guard... (Alex.France@kp.org) 6. Grabbing The Knife Arm (al sardinas) 7. Re: Silat (Andrew Astle) 8. RE: Complete package! (billlowery@tinyonline.co.uk) 9. Re: RE: Complete package! (iPat) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:45:12 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Grappling and ol Red Dog To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "...are there a lot of excellent points being made here..." Absolutely. The growling and the snarling do get in the way of civil discourse. Point for Marc. I like what Marc said about some violent people being on speed dial. You will get victimized or sucked into the violence if you are not discerning enough to notice it, especially if you unwittingly triggered it. I lived in the Philippines the first 27 years of my life, a few of those in harms' way. You develop an instinct almost for feeling or smelling danger. Example:: While working in Cotabato, Phil, I lived in a hotel. One night, about 1:00 AM, I was awakened by a knocking on my door. I looked at the peephole and saw no one. I grabbed my gun, and opened and quickly shut my door. That split second was enough for me to see two men with drawn guns on both sides flat against the side of the wall. Thwarted, they started angrily pounding on the door. I called my personal bodyguard who was sleeping one floor below. My bodyguard got the hotel security guard at the lobby and the two groups confronted each other with drawn guns, and the intruders explained they were army officers looking for a stripper for questioning. Right...They turned out to be Moslem army officers in the regular army in civilian clothes, and drunk. What they were really up to I will never know, but I know if I was complacent that night, I would have had, at best, a few harrowing minutes looking at the barrels of two guns held by two drunken guys. I had several dozen personal incidents similar to this one, none that turned actually violent, but could easily have ended sideways for me. Point for Pierre. This is where I empathize with Pierre and I believe Rez. And I will express my own feelings in my own words. I wish I was that experienced (as Marc and others) that I can quickly assess the extent of the danger, have that much confidence in my ability to defend myself and/or others with or without weapons (which can also be situational as others have pointed out, as in, do I have the flu, am I holding my kid with my left arm), and I can quickly gauge how much force I am legally allowed. All this within probably a few seconds. I remember posting here a while back about being "underarmed." In the Philippines, if my friend and I were, say, suddenly confronted by 6 thugs with knives, and they made the serious mistake of being underarmed, we would quickly drop two of them, and take our chances with the law. Chances are, if they were thugs and we were law-abiding businessmen minding our own business who did not provoke them in any way, it would be an open and shut case and chances are, we would not even be charged at all.. Unfortunately, it is very different here in the US. Hence, the snarling and the growling. Jay de Leon Edwin Tam wrote: Is it just me, or are there a lot of excellent points being made here underneath the barking? Funny thing is, I know Pierre, and if anyone has looked into the legal ramifications of things here in Canada, it's him. He's not a hothead looking for trouble. As for Mr. Macyoung, I have practically all his books, so I honestly respect his opinion immensely. I don't think you guys are actually as far apart as all that (that swooshing sound is me ducking...) Anyways, if I can re-ask the question... security about going to the ground...but the idea of just giving up when faced with that doesn't sit well either. I agree that these are rare scenarios, but hey, a lot of self-defense training deals with relatively rare events (for the average, aware, non-trouble seeking adult not living in a war zone city). _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:07:38 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Grappling and ol Red Dog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > iPat > Those working as doormen will probably have come across fellow doormen > who had this attitude. Several times i found myself walking an irate > customer away apologising and that was only the times when the > fighting never took place. Well except for the ass chewing you give to the other bouncer for escalating a problem rather than de-escalating it. I've actually knocked the snot out of my own guys for making something blow up. > i agree, except though Marc, the attack never comes wen you are fully > alert. Its probably when you are tired, full of the flu etc. Would you > disagree? Disagree? Try agree, 100% Although I'd probably use the word "weary" instead of tired. Reason being that it always seemed to go down when you were off your game, you really didn't feel like fighing, your biorythm was off or whatever you want to call it. You're just tired of the BS. It was then, when you really wanted to talk it down without it going sideways that it always seemed to go sideways. That's when the guys who would ordinarily not dare to launch at you would launch. :-\ Which I think is another form of attitude playing an important part of whether or not it gets ugly. As for tired, I'd alway make sure that my crews were most on their toes at closing. Everyone would want to relax and I'd whip them up because that's the absolute best time to rob a bar/club. The most money and everyone let their guard down, that's when you walk in with shotguns. > Agisn, i recognise this person and i still dont think many martial > artists would cope with the majority of these charachters. I know i > dont want to be there if i can help it. Hell, these days I don't want to be there if I can help it. Why do you think I live in Castle Rock Colorado? They don't need my skills. I always liked the Louis L'amour comment about adventure. "Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It's exciting to read about it in the comfort of your armchair at home, but it's pure hell when it comes at you in a dark and lonely place." > i have a problem with going to busy bars. Anyone else the same? I cant > relax. Im always scanning the place and can never relax. Same. To everyone else it's a fun night...to me it's like going to work. What's that old line about a "busman's holiday?" My gawd, we've become our grandparents *shudder* M --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 07:28:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Kessler To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re:Grappling and knives Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think you are right, there is actually some good information and even some agreement beneath the hyperbole. We'll leave the poor ol' dog out of it. 1. Grappling someone with a knife is not on your basic "Top Ten Good Ideas" list. 2. You might find yourself in close quarters and clinched with someone who has a blade, in which case the sh*t has already well hit the fan, so saying "it's a bad idea, don't do it" is perhaps overly simple, or at least advice given late. But in general, "don't do it" (e.g., avoid getting into that situation) is the best advice. 3. Probably your best bet (this distilled from reading, not from personal experience) if you do wind up in that nasty and best-to-be-avoided-at-all-costs scenario of facing a knife-weilding opponent close up is to go apesh*t ballistic on him, attacking hard, fast, and doing your utmost to take him out as quickly as possible (taking as little damage to yourself as possible) rather than engaging in a prolonged struggle to try to control the blade. Hopefully that captures it and I get passing marks. If not, I have an asbestos suit for the resulting flameouts, and I know how to use it. JK --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:16:37 -0400 From: Khalkee@netscape.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Silat Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Can anyone compare/contrast Silat Pertempuran, Silat Mubai, and Silat Zulfiquari? If possible throw into the mix Hochheim's Pacific Archipelago Combatives? Direct answer is welcome. __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Alex.France@kp.org Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:44:38 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Caught Off Guard... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Edwin wrote: >>Even with awareness and respectful manner, I would argue that there are some rare scenarios where you can be caught off guard (short of being on full alert all the time; and who can sustain that?).<< We all train ourselves to be on some level of alert at all times (Ray had an excellent post some time ago about "yellow" being the place to be); but speaking for myself, I agree with you, Edwin! Long ago, shortly after coming back to the States from the Philippines, I was talking on the phone inside a booth when I turned around and saw a man with a machete raised up to strike me! We didn't have such phone booths in the Philippines at that time, and now I knew why! (smile). For an instant, that phone booth felt like a coffin. To make matters worse, I had not even bothered to close the coffin lid, I mean the folding door, behind me! Good thing he had a machete and was intent on using it appropriately (by hacking). If he had a pinute, he could have stabbed me and I wouldn't be writing this now. Between luck and skill, I think I'd rather be lucky! Alex(ander Bautista Bayot France) --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "al sardinas" To: Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:03:30 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Grabbing The Knife Arm Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Under the Subject: Re: Grappling and ol Red Dog, Mr. Tam wrote in his email "There are some respected instructors who advise going for the arm grab when unarmed against the knife, especially if it's a full on committed repeat attacks and you can't get past the person. Ideally, the grab stops the momentum of the attack, and you have a chance to take down ...." If you are going to grab, I recommend going for the wrist and not the arm. Better control! Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:36:51 -0400 From: Andrew Astle To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Silat Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Khalkee@netscape.net wrote: >Can anyone compare/contrast Silat Pertempuran, Silat Mubai, and Silat Zulfiquari? If possible throw into the mix Hochheim's Pacific Archipelago Combatives? Direct answer is welcome. > >__________________________________________________________________ >Switch to Netscape Internet Service. >As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > >Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > >New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer >Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. >Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > > Hi Khalkhee, Selamat, try visiting this mega martial arts forum from the UK: www.martialartsplanet.com. Register with them and you can access the many martial arts (and other ) forums. I like the silat forum, many Indonesian Gurus, pendekars and pesilat post there. They can easily help you with your question. I have seen many posts about little known silat styles at this forum and many a spirited discussion! Happy hunting! Hormat and terhorma kasi, Pemabantu Andy --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 21:13:28 +0100 From: billlowery@tinyonline.co.uk To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Complete package! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Pat, >The video/DVDs released to accompany this book make it a more complete learning experience. Well worth checking out< Are they DVDs? I thought that the advert I saw said VCDs. Bill __________________________________________________________________ 1Mb Tiscali Broadband for £14.99. Offer ends 30th June 2005 http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:26:47 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Complete package! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net couldnt really tell you i bought them as Videos and then i thought they brought them out as DVDs but maybe its vcd's. The MKG website should tell you, but along with the book they are a pair, apart they seem to miss out. I realy think Faye is a world apart in this material and the footage gives a great foundation. Theres years worth of training in the material. Well for my skill level anyway! On 9/7/05, billlowery@tinyonline.co.uk wrote: > Hi Pat, > > >The video/DVDs released to accompany this book make it a more complete > learning experience. Well worth checking out< > > Are they DVDs? I thought that the advert I saw said VCDs. > > Bill > -- iPat "Some seek to learn the Warrior's craft by practicing skills and techniques, others by the cultivation of strength and endurance. Some will attempt to attain to the Way of the Warrior by developing "chi" or through meditative practice. The Way of the Warrior is truly found in freeing oneself from all of these things." --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest