Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:16:16 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #328 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: SOUTHN JERSEY TRAINING GROUP (net@fessparker.com) 2. kali: seeking to train (RavenSire@aol.com) 3. Questions (aj aj) 4. FMA & Silat tapes for sale (Jon Broster) 5. Reminder: Modern Arnis Seminar this Sunday (Oct 3) - Burbank CA (em@mooned.org) 6. "Dead" Patterns (Steve Kohn) 7. Vee Arnis Jitsu Seminar in Kansas (Andrew Evans) 8. Re: "Dead" Patterns (iPat) 9. Suro (Ray) 10. Re: "Dead" Patterns (WoodyTX) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: net@fessparker.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] SOUTHN JERSEY TRAINING GROUP Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:53:26 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I hope you find people to train with. I too am looking for others in the central coast california area. santa barbara, santa maria , san luis obispo, paso robles? Anybody interested? ---- Original Message ---- From: royparker@comcast.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] SOUTHN JERSEY TRAINING GROUP Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:38:11 -0400 >I am looking for interested fma practitioners who would be interested >in >starting a fma training group in the south jersey shore area. No >dues, just >getting together on a semi regular basis to train. Contact me at >royparker@comcast.net > >Roy Parker >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 From: RavenSire@aol.com Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:17:08 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] kali: seeking to train Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hello. i have practiced japanese karate-do for 35 years, as well as kwan sao gung-fu and okinawa ti (tee), a version of aiki jutsu. in the early 1970's i practiced kali with an older man in the building where i lived in. this was in new york city. his name was antonio maldonado. he taught me basics and the stick and batangas knife (balisong). i have always kept what he taught me close to my heart. in 2002 i had to semi-retire from teaching due to a hereditary heart condition. i would like to meet some practitioners of kali, eskrina or arnis near where i live in south florida. i just want to practice and learn. i am willing to teach in return. if anyone would like to train, please contact me. i think this would be good for my health also. thank you very much, raymond alamo --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "aj aj" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:14:36 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Questions Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey guys how are yah I have joined a new gym called kombat arts. And among other things im taking dbma/kali and was hoping to get some advice on the different types of wood used for arnis sticks. The wood and their advantages and disadvantages. kamagong, Bahi and Narra it would be a big help thank you. Any help would be much appreciated and are there any ways in order to detect inferior quality and fake sticks which i have heard some people get duped into buying. Thanks for any help you can provide and if u a bit of time check out www.kombatarts.com aj _________________________________________________________________ Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special stationery, fonts and colors. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSNŽ Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:17:43 +0100 (BST) From: Jon Broster To: Eskrima Digest Subject: [Eskrima] FMA & Silat tapes for sale Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi I just listed several lots of instructional videos on ebay They include: Inayan Kadena de Mano (Mike Inay) Kalsag Kuntao Silat (Roberto Torres) Pukulan Pentjak Silat (Steve Plinck) Closing the Gap (Chris Parker) If you are interested check out item number 7185637478 or http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZjonathanbrosterQQhtZ-1 Jon "There's nothing more dangerous than a blunt knife" http://www.pecahan.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:24:24 -0400 From: em@mooned.org To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Reminder: Modern Arnis Seminar this Sunday (Oct 3) - Burbank CA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just a reminder: SPECIAL SEMINAR 'KNIFE AND STICK' By Master Prof. Danny Anderson 8th Dan Senior Master "Modern Arnis" Founder, M-80 System of Modern Arnis One of the longest continuously training students of Grand Master Remy A. Presas ? Over 25 Years October 2, 2005 SUNDAY AT AIKIDO DAIWA SCHOOL 4404 WEST VICTORY BLVD. BURBANK, CA (818) 843-4984 Two classes from 12 Noon to 2 PM Modern Arnis (Stick and Empty Hands) 2:30 PM to 4:30 PM Gunting Modular Blade Craft $70.00 at the door $60.00 Advance sign-up by Sept. 20th Bring any 4 persons from same school and the fifth one is free. Limited Space, so please call now to reserve your space: Contact Toma at Daiwa School (818) 843-4984 or E-mail me at TomaWallAikido@earthlink.net PayPal Accepted Bring your sticks and a Training Knife Come and learn from a Master Instructor Thanks, --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:01:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kohn To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "Dead" Patterns Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi All, Rather than just chiming in on a thread, I thought I would start one today. There's a gentleman out there (assuming he is one) that I'll allow to remain nameless as he is not a digest member and therefore cannot defend himself. He is quite fond of dismissing the "dead patterns" commonly used as training methods in the FMAs as worthless. Curiously though, he has huge respect for Guru Dan Inosanto, a great proponent of this type of training. So his argument already has holes in it. Now to play Devils advocate for a moment, I agree that patterns are quite "dead" when taken too literally. I mean, it doesnt take a genius to figure out that patterns (hubud, stick counter-for-counter, etc.) are not to be confused with fighting, though I'm sure many folks do. For me, every drill, no matter how static it may be, is practiced to bring out a very specific attribute in a controlled environment. It might be balance, leverage, line recognition...whatever. The way I understand it, fighting, which is a very complex game, can be taught as a series of drills, which are much simpler games. Ultimately, all of these relatively simple games can be brought back to that much larger, more complex game which is fighting. I like teaching with patterns so you can get in tons of repetitions without having to worry about being surprised by strange angles. It allows you to practice with conviction. Eventually though, you will have to work reflex drills or you will always be surprised by strange angles/energies. Musicians practice fingering patterns for scales and chords that are very dead in the beginning. They are not music yet. In time, you have to liberate yourself from the math of music theory and start making actual music. This is not unlike drilling, which eventually leads to sparring. You have to learn all you can and then forget it as one of my music teachers once said. I feel this applies to a pattern based martial arts teaching method as well. I'm not hell bent on this approach as I have a friend in another system who discourages the use of patterns and his students look very good...so he showed me that there is more than one way to skin a cat. Your thoughts on patterns vs. no patterns please. Regards, Steve Kohn Torrance, CA --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --__--__-- Message: 7 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: "Andrew Evans" Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Vee Arnis Jitsu Seminar in Kansas Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Making Your Martial Art Street Effective" Absolute Martial Arts and Hokkien Martial Arts proudly present the Budo International Magazine 2005 Self-Defense Instructor of the Year, Sensei "Big" John Petrone for a 2-day seminar at Absolute Martial Arts (2909 SW 37th Terrace) in Topeka, Kansas on October 22-23, 2005. Times will be 1pm-6pm on Saturday and 9am-3pm on Sunday. Sensei Petrone teaches the highly effective street self-defense system, Vee Arnis Jitsu. He is a direct student of Professor David James, Grandmaster of the Vee Arnis Jitsu System, and is the co-owner of the Defense Institute, an organization that excels in training elite units of the military, to include such long standing clients as the 10th Special Forces Group, and law enforcement agencies, such as the CO Department of Corrections. There are currently over 100 units/departments utilizing the Defense Institute's Control Tactics and Threat Elimination (D.I.C.T.A.T.E.) program and Correctional Control Tactics (C.C.T.) program. The website is www.defenseinstitute.com Cost for the seminar is $70 if paid by October 8. Afterwards, it is $80. This event is highly recommended for martial artists, law enforcement and military. Beginner to black belt will find real value in this training. All styles are welcome. Nobody under 18 allowed. Groin protection is mandatory. Be prepared to be blown away! Please contact Andrew Evans at (785) 213-1576, email hokkien@excite.com or visit www.TopekaKarate.com for more information. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:04:20 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] "Dead" Patterns Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On 9/27/05, Steve Kohn wrote: > Your thoughts on patterns vs. no patterns please. in my school i have a large variety of students. Some have a challenge just to attend and actually become co ordinated and drilling patterns is what they want and a great way to get them leading a healthier life. Now none of these guys are looking to fight. They just dont want to sit in front of the telly all night. If that changes later on then the options are there. In my fighters class for the likes of mma or thai, i work progressive techniques under resistance. This is nothing new and practiced in all types of combat training. The closer to fight time and the less 'patterned' the training will be, until its spontaneous within the structure of the requirements. If however i want to develop in a fighter a particular technique or mechanic then i use a pattern that will bring the repetition required to familarise the body with the requirement and then by increasining the intensity of the feed try and ingrain it into the pssyche. This doesnt happen over night and so someone could view for a month and deduce that is all we do. A common fault of detractors of FMA who think its just sticks and disarms. Why after so many years of training do i still work the ng da with Sifu Inosanto? Because this is the bread and butter of the foundation of what 'i' do. The patterns are in their own right a default. I replace the kicks with other kicks or 'something else' in my own training but quite often that penny will not drop for many people until later on - never for some - heck i dont even know if its dropped fully for me yet! We use the default to work together using a common language and quite often that gets missed and so the critism of dead patterns is correct in one sence but annoys many because its simply missing the point and focussing on the wrong area. as far as im concerned ill work my corner, you work yours. Those who shout the loudest are usually selling something and the noise they make is only a projection of the noise within, the need to be vindicated. Since im still learning my trade ill not critisise too many others and my path will probably tell anyone who wants to know what i think works. Patterns have their function, but are only one piece of the jigsaw -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk if you have any preconception of yourself, you cannot comprehend the unknown, that which is spontaneous. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Eskrima] Suro Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Suro, we continue to miss you... RIP Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:55:57 -0500 From: WoodyTX To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] "Dead" Patterns Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Patterns and katas aren't really 'fighting'." "Bricks and boards aren't really a house." ;-) Woody On 9/26/05, Steve Kohn wrote: > Hi All, > > Rather than just chiming in on a thread, I thought I would start one today. There's a gentleman out there (assuming he is one) that I'll allow to remain nameless as he is not a digest member and therefore cannot defend himself. He is quite fond of dismissing the "dead patterns" commonly used as training methods in the FMAs as worthless. Curiously though, he has huge respect for Guru Dan Inosanto, a great proponent of this type of training. So his argument already has holes in it. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest