Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 03:00:58 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #344 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Manong "Mad" Max Pallens (Marc Denny) 2. Re: stick materials (Kes41355@aol.com) 3. Re: Re: stick materials (J. Richard Metcalfe) 4. Re: YES!!! (Steve Kohn) 5. Re: Silat (Steve Kohn) 6. Re: Steve and Silat Knife (Steve Kohn) 7. RE: Steve and Silat Knife (Mike Casto) 8. Silat and Steve and Me (Andrew Astle) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 06:34:46 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Manong "Mad" Max Pallens Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: By the way, Max Pallens' fight at our Dog Brothers Gathering (at the age of 61!) is the featured fight of our "Los Triques" DVD coming out in a week or two. Woof, Crafty Dog > > The FMA instructors mentioned aren't really all that close to Alex, but > here are a several more to add to that general area list... > > Jon Ward in San Jose > Max Pallens in Union City, Castro Valley, San Leandro, etc > Alfredo Bandalan in San Jose, Hayward > Ron Lew in San Jose > Vincent Cabales in Stockton > of course, yours truly in San Jose > many more that I am no doubt missing > > ...and for six months each year, Cacoy Canete in San Jose!!! > > Ray Terry --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:18:36 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: stick materials Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, Mike showed me a Bahi stick the last time I saw him like the ones Angel gave to his students, and Rob gave me one just like it for my birthday shortly after that. I love it, it's not only a memento of my teacher Rob, but it is a dense piece of wood, and packs quite a wallop. I use it to practice Karensa due to it's weight, and feed lock and block at times with it to get my students used to defending against a heavy weapon. Bahi sticks aren't easy to break, but, we've found that Bahi does chip, and caution must be used as with any hardwood to insure the students' safety. I've heard of another wood indigenous to the Philippines called, I think, Molave (sp?), which is supposed to be heavy and dense, but quite a bit more flexible and durable than other hardwoods. Does anyone here have any experience with this wood? I have an on-line friend who sells hand carved battle sticks of Molave made in the Philippines; if anyone is interested, I could forward his address to them. He also sells beautiful handmade swords (Kris, Barong, etc.) that are among the best I've seen. Again, let me know if any of you are interested, and I'll pass on his web address to you. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 10/11/2005 5:38:21 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: You've easily broken bahi sticks? I've easily broken cocobolo and kamagong, but not bahi. This was one reason why Angel gave bahi sticks to his most senior students, they lasted a long long time. Good battle sticks. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:11:17 +0700 From: "J. Richard Metcalfe" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: stick materials Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kim I'd love to get in touch with your friend. I am always looking for new sources. I am really interested in his handmade swords also. Thanks J. Richard Metcalfe --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 10:50:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] YES!!! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Can I get an AMEN?! jason couture wrote:Steve Kohn is 100% right!!!!! Politics in the MA suck! Just do your thang and be proud. **JASON COUTURE** __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:11:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Silat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net John, Thanks for the response. I understand that...to a point. Best, Steve John Bonifazio wrote: Steve, Silat knife is something a student is not going to see for quite a while, and won't be handed out in seminars. There are not too many people that train long enough and hard enough to make the teacher want to show them the jewels or the art. John __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:30:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Steve and Silat Knife To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Andrew, Thanks for the info. I'll have to have a look at the material you've mentioned. Re:Kali Disarms - Inosanto has often said that disarms are either incidental or accidental...I try to stress that in my teaching so the common (and very dangerous) mistake of looking for a disarm isnt made. I once disarmed a bottle from a guy when I worked in a bar using what I learned from Kali, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss certain techniques as (and i say this respectfully) important points could have been missed when you trained them. They could still supplement whatever cool techniques Pak Vic is sharing with you. Hopefully neither of us will ever have to use any of it. Thanks again for your help. -Steve Andrew Astle wrote: Steve, Hmm, you say you you've never seen silat knife (pisau)? Pak Victor de Thouars has the following resources: There are 3 videos on the Serak Pisau jurus 1-6, 7-12, 13-18. Pak Vic talks about the basic theories of Serak blade on these as well. 2 of the 5 Combat Silat DVDs he produced "Blitzing Blades" and "Blitzing Blades and Hands" are excellent demonstrations of different aspects of Serak knife work. Finally, he created "Blades of Thunder" with Steve Gartin and Jerry McCleary, which also shows an excellent overview of the pisau in Serak. Serak does not like to disarm, we like to simultaneous strike and control. Serak does not like to do "passing" or flow drills like that I learned in Lacoste/Inosanto Kali, trying to bring things immediately to an end is stressed. Serak has forced me abandon some of the things I was taught in Kali. One great way I weeded out "unworkable" defenses was by testing them out with a simple thrust and retraction, which one of the ways we are trained in Serak. So much of what I was taught was by simply leaving the blade out there. What is of more interest is the offensive use of the blade in Serak, which is truly frightening. More time is spent on this than on defense. Serak excels in the offensive use of the blade. However Mr. Marc MacYoung's comments on using the blade yourself are applicable here, its hard to see how you will stay out of prison! Serak's theory is that you do not "fight" your opponent with the knife, you bring and end to the violent offender. I highly recommend Pak Vic's resources, as the use of the pisau differs considerably (such as holding the knife edge up) from FMA. If you live on the East Coast I'm hosting him out here in New York state in a couple of weeks if anyone would like to see Pak Vic teach the pisau in person. Hope this helps. Guro Andrew Astle _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Mike Casto" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Steve and Silat Knife Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:16:49 -0400 Organization: I.M.P.A.C.T. Academy of Martial Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yup. "Accidental if not incidental" is something I stress, too. But I also stress the fact that the disarms we do in training are the icing on the cake. The cake is getting control of the weapon while attacking the opponent ... and specifically attacking the opponent's structure. All the disarms I teach and train (and most that I've seen) start by getting control of the weapon while attacking the opponent. Getting this control and attack is the cake. If I achieve that then a lot of options open up to me (and disarming is one possible option that might be available). If I don't get this control and attack then I'll *never* get the disarm and I'll probably end up dead in short order. I look at the training, then, as a method of training to get this control and attack. The disarm just adds spice to the training and makes it more interesting and fun. And if a disarm becomes available in reality I'll have a chance to take it. If I don't train them, then I *won't* be able to take advantage of them even if they're staring me in the face. Mike -----Original Message----- From: Steve Kohn [mailto:musilat2@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 9:30 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Steve and Silat Knife Andrew, Thanks for the info. I'll have to have a look at the material you've mentioned. Re:Kali Disarms - Inosanto has often said that disarms are either incidental or accidental...I try to stress that in my teaching so the common (and very dangerous) mistake of looking for a disarm isnt made. I once disarmed a bottle from a guy when I worked in a bar using what I learned from Kali, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss certain techniques as (and i say this respectfully) important points could have been missed when you trained them. They could still supplement whatever cool techniques Pak Vic is sharing with you. Hopefully neither of us will ever have to use any of it. Thanks again for your help. -Steve Andrew Astle wrote: Steve, Hmm, you say you you've never seen silat knife (pisau)? Pak Victor de Thouars has the following resources: There are 3 videos on the Serak Pisau jurus 1-6, 7-12, 13-18. Pak Vic talks about the basic theories of Serak blade on these as well. 2 of the 5 Combat Silat DVDs he produced "Blitzing Blades" and "Blitzing Blades and Hands" are excellent demonstrations of different aspects of Serak knife work. Finally, he created "Blades of Thunder" with Steve Gartin and Jerry McCleary, which also shows an excellent overview of the pisau in Serak. Serak does not like to disarm, we like to simultaneous strike and control. Serak does not like to do "passing" or flow drills like that I learned in Lacoste/Inosanto Kali, trying to bring things immediately to an end is stressed. Serak has forced me abandon some of the things I was taught in Kali. One great way I weeded out "unworkable" defenses was by testing them out with a simple thrust and retraction, which one of the ways we are trained in Serak. So much of what I was taught was by simply leaving the blade out there. What is of more interest is the offensive use of the blade in Serak, which is truly frightening. More time is spent on this than on defense. Serak excels in the offensive use of the blade. However Mr. Marc MacYoung's comments on using the blade yourself are applicable here, its hard to see how you will stay out of prison! Serak's theory is that you do not "fight" your opponent with the knife, you bring and end to the violent offender. I highly recommend Pak Vic's resources, as the use of the pisau differs considerably (such as holding the knife edge up) from FMA. If you live on the East Coast I'm hosting him out here in New York state in a couple of weeks if anyone would like to see Pak Vic teach the pisau in person. Hope this helps. Guro Andrew Astle _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:08:09 -0400 From: Andrew Astle To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Silat and Steve and Me Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Mike Casto, You have exactly summed up the way I teach the blade to my students in Lacoste/Inosanto kali-silat. That is also the way Serak approaches the blade but we *generally* finish by a sambut (sambut = eradication) or "return to sender" rather than a disarm. This is not to say there is no disarming, just that the stress on them is not there. The legality of this approach is very questionable, of course. Training for a surprise attack is very common (since that is the way the Serak person deploys the pisau), where the trainer uses an attack with a retraction.Serak takes the blade extremely seriously and silat in general sees the use of the blade as an assassination attempt, not fighting per se. Andrew --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest