Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 03:00:51 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #351 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. seminar: Edged weapons awareness and countermeasures (Kimberley Hobbs) 2. Re: Re: Bahi sticks (nephalim1@netscape.net) 3. RE: Re: Secret techniques (Ken Borowiec) 4. Re: music (RavenSire@aol.com) 5. RE: NYC bouncer knifing & evil fighting knives... (mark@swervingatom.com) 6. RE: RE: NYC bouncer knifing & evil fighting knives... (Ken Borowiec) 7. secret techniques (rob mulligan) 8. RE: RE: NYC bouncer knifing & evil fighting knives... (Pierre Honeyman) 9. Re: RE: Stick Materials (Anthony C) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Kimberley Hobbs" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:25:44 -0230 Subject: [Eskrima] seminar: Edged weapons awareness and countermeasures Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all,   John Maidment will be giving a 2 day seminar with emphasis on edged weapon awareness and countermeasures in St. John's Newfoundland on November 26 and 27. John is a certified Martial Arts Instructor under Dan Inosanto and is also a Defensive Tactics Instructor. Anyone who will be visiting "the Rock" and is intersted in attending the seminar can contact Dennis White at email: fist_and_mind@yahoo.com or phone: 1-709-570-6202. Kim Hobbs Diversified Combat Systems/ Filipino Martial Arts Association   --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:49:19 -0400 From: nephalim1@netscape.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Bahi sticks To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kim, Try several layers of a thin cut of shellac. A "light/thin" cut means a higher content of solvent. The most common solvent is denatured alcohol. This should allow a good penetration into bare wood and create a good moisture barrier that is efficient especially in places of extreme climate changes. Shellac, although not waterproof, is a good finish as a sub-layer to keep the wood from rapid gain and loss of moisture. Make sure that you start with bare/unfinished wood Brgds, Jose -----Original Message----- From: Kes41355@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:50:29 EDT Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Bahi sticks Hi Ray, Yep, viewed from the end, bahi bears a striking resemblance to rattan. Rob and I have used them (bahi sticks) in practice, and although they are hard and tough, they will chip. We soak most of our sticks in boiled linseed oil, both rattan and hardwood (rattan, to add heft, and hardwood, to protect against moisture), and even with this added measure, the bahi still chipped. I sanded down the spot that chipped, and have continued using the stick (which I believe Rob bought from Cecil Quirino at Kris Cutlery. Rob, correct me if I'm wrong here), and I still use it in practice, but am cognizant that it could break. I absolutely love the bahi for Karensa, due to its extra weight, but am kinda wary of any hard banging with a student. I have a beautiful hand carved kamagong stick that Rob also gave me before he moved away, but I do not use it with students, due to it's "breakability," and also because it is a memento of my teacher, and I want to hang on to it. Kim _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________________________________________ Look What The New Netscape.com Can Do! Now you can preview dozens of stories and have the ones you select delivered to you without ever leaving the Top Home Page. And the new Tool Box gives you one click access to local Movie times, Maps, White Pages and more. See for yourself at http://netcenter.netscape.com/netcenter/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: Secret techniques Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 08:55:54 -0400 From: "Ken Borowiec" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net 1) It wasn't a box cutter...it was a designed and marketed "fighting knife." The only error to your response was that I meant there were box cutter incidents in the news as well as the story of the attack in the NY bar. I meant them as two different incidents not the same. But now that I read all the details of that story I did not know I realize he did intend on killing the poor bouncer. Thank you for clarifying that for me. Because I realize now it wasn't just a "accidental killing". Ken --__--__-- Message: 4 From: RavenSire@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 10:37:14 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] music To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net hi all, as a long time practitioner of japanese martial arts (among others) i wanted to add my penny's worth to this subject. the kali i practice is very basic. it does not have fancy foot work or a beat-down series of attacks. i was taught from 1971-1973 in NYC by a man who lived in my building. when he was teaching me the usage of the batangas knife (balisong), he did this 3-beat sound with his mouth (like pahm,pahm....pahm, louder on the last one). he also had me practice the sticks that way. today, i am interested in the more traditional music you guys are discussing and i'm learning from all of you thru your experiences. i also liked the "hero" music, but here is one i'ved tried and loved: taiko (japanese war) drums! go on the internet, search taiko drums and see what you find. if you are into a beat that will bring the warrior out of your heart, this should shake you up and get you going! take care, ra! (broward county, florida) --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:48:48 -0700 From: mark@swervingatom.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: NYC bouncer knifing & evil fighting knives... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A question for Animal (and anyone else in the know), What was the knife used in the NYC bouncer knifing, and what about its design caused the judge describe it as "evil"? If the knife was one of those flea market specials covered with spikes and pointy bits that's one thing - if it was a Spyderco Endura then many of us may have cause for concern. mfw --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] RE: NYC bouncer knifing & evil fighting knives... Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:21:51 -0400 From: "Ken Borowiec" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In the report that I had read in the local paper it had stated that he had trained in FMA for one year. This is what had caused my concern for teaching to early and without knowing the student long enough. I had accidentally erased a response earlier so I cannot recall who wrote it (for that I'm sorry) But as much as knife is fundamentally built into FMA stick exercises and drills. The fine tuning of the weapon still must be shown to be correctly honed (if I am wrong please correct). The reason I state this is because when I was learning about sticks I never even realized I had all ready learned the fundamental knife skills until it was revealed to me by my Guro. I'm sure there are people who saw it right away but it was not that way for me. I just worry for the school associated with such a student. I think that something like that could do some serious damage to the schools rep. Never mind the entire art as was done in the "daily news" after that incident. Ken --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "rob mulligan" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:46:24 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] secret techniques Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net  “Secret techniques” sometimes should remain “secret”. Why? Filipino blade techniques are sneaky, fast, and deadly.  We know that. They’re not for showboating; they’re for survival when it’s life or death.  Referring back to the bouncer murder that I’ve written about before and that Marc wrote about the other day:  The technique used by Isaias Umali to kill Dana Blake was/is something many of us know and some of us teach.  I’ve written before how many opportunities he had to bail out, and he didn’t. There’s the issue. How can we know that our student will be responsible with our “secret deadly” technique?   We can’t and we don’t.  Mr. Umali’s instructor, who testified in court specifically illustrating the move, will have to carry the knowledge that what he taught – in good faith – was used to kill an innocent man.   That’s a very very heavy burden, and something I never want on my shoulders.   So yes I do have oooh…“secret” techniques, but they’re not really “secret”. They’re more like “selective”. I teach the “selective techniques” that were given to me to only two people outside of my family; a sergeant with the NYPD and a friend/student I’ve known for ten years.  I teach a few things they don’t even see to my precious fifteen-year-old daughter who is a high school runner and wears a neck knife when she runs alone. Any guarantees that I’ll never regret teaching them?  No, there are no guarantees. Will I show what I know to some Billy Bob who trains with me for three months and thinks I owe it to him?  H*LL  NO.  Will I show them in a seminar because I should (to quote an earlier post – no disrespect intended) “clarify what your art is really about”? “to help people see what your art has to offer”? H*LLLL  DAMN  NO. I have a day job to pay my bills; I teach in a park on the weekend for the love of it. Otherwise I would be home with my feet up watching my Zatoichi video collection. I recognize others teach for a living – they have my admiration and respect – they have to teach enough people to earn a living, and yet carefully discern who the “bad” guys are. But me, I don’t need to clarify anything. The FIRST question is - do I feel comfortable teaching YOU? Yes?   Ok, let’s see how long you stay, how dedicated you are, (will you come out in nine degree weather, or pouring rain, or sweltering heat – I do, and I expect you to),  if you’re a gentleman. (PG Marinas taught me that)   We’ll see. Time will tell.  It’s your job to prove that you’re deserving of my  giving to you what was given to me, not the other way around. My name's not Ron Popiel, I won't chase after you saying: "but wait, there's more!" You need to prove to me that you deserve and can be trusted enough to be shown more, specially when it's this "secret deadly" blade stuff you want to learn. I’ll show you what I know if and when I feel I can trust that passing you the knowledge of how to kill someone in a moments time won’t come back to haunt me and my family. I need to know that teaching you won't ruin MY life. Does that attitude make me an arrogant A-hole?  I really don’t care. I’ll be an wary and cautious arrogant A-hole who can sleep at night.   Rob Mulligan www.kwikstik.com                                 --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:00:34 -0700 From: Pierre Honeyman To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] RE: NYC bouncer knifing & evil fighting knives... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Quoting Ken Borowiec : > But as much as knife is fundamentally built into FMA stick exercises and > drills. The fine tuning of the weapon still must be shown to be > correctly honed (if I am wrong please correct). The reason I state this > is because when I was learning about sticks I never even realized I had > all ready learned the fundamental knife skills until it was revealed to > me by my Guro. I'm sure there are people who saw it right away but it > was not that way for me. *That* horse left the barn a *long* time ago; there is enough material available to a student without a school for anyone to learn knife fundamentals. It's not like knife offense is hard - untrained people kill each other with them by the boatload every year. And, really, how much skill is required to ambush a guy already engaged with two others, and stab him? In my opinion treating "knife" as a "secret" is foolish. There is no reason to do so. In fact it may even be counterproductive. Edged weapons are extremely common weapons - IIRC knives were the number one weapon used in homicides in Canada last year (or maybe the year before) - and refusing to teach their use, and thus the defences against them, could actually be leaving students at risk. And it's not like thugs are lining up to learn deadly knife sekrits from crazy Asian masters. Shit, they already know how to stab a guy. The hard part comes in when the *other* guy has a knife, which is really the most likely scenario for a "good" guy. Pierre --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:24:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Anthony C Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: Stick Materials To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net What about good old fashion all-American Hickory? This is what many of the police night sticks have been made of for years when natural wood was used. - Anthony --- Alex Ercia wrote: > If you are interested in different sticks and wood > carved swords or garotes > check www.pmasupplies.com. They are real good > quality at a reasonable price. > > Alex-ARMAS-inc. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest