Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:17:56 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #357 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. And furthermore... (Steve Kohn) 2. Re: And furthermore... (jay de leon) 3. Re: And furthermore... (iPat) 4. Secret techniques (Michael Koblic) 5. Re: And furthermore... (Steve Kohn) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:40:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kohn To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] And furthermore... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ok, I lied. I'm not done with this yet. While I agree that, for the most part, stereotyping is not cool behavior, I'd be really shocked if, as martial artists, everyone here could honestly say that people with certain looks don't cause them to put their guards up when walking down the street. Anyone that lives anyplace other than a small town would be insane not to do this. I've done enough security work to know that profiling (for lack of a better word) is part of the gig if you're going to be any good at your job. Keep in mind I DID NOT say racial profiling. I'll never agree with that. My profiling is based largely on body language. As a bouncer I became very good at identifying potential problems based on how people move and act...so I dont feel bad about a little profiling if it keeps me safe. Unfortunately, political correctness makes it very difficult to address this subject without offending people...which is not my intent. My dad was a Jewish accountant from New York, so that is proof that stereotypes can have some basis in truth even if the people that fit the stereotype are in the minority. Why else would stereotypes exist? I personally find it damn funny when someone fits a stereotype perfectly...even if it's myself. But that's just me. -Steve Kohn "The only thing worth taking seriously is humor." --Mick Goodrick - Guitarist Steve Kohn wrote: Im dumping on Neo Nazis. I have a crop. I'm talking about the hooligans that fight, vandalize and spew racial epithets. There's a theme here, and I appologize for addressing it in this context. I'll get back to FMAs. -Steve Kohn iPat wrote: i guess you ve been one? ; ) but really, working to stereotypes is base level stuff. On skinheads, are you dumping them all in as neo nazis or is it anyone with a crop? As soccer hooligans, is it the ones who may work as financial advisors or the ones who dont work? next thing i'll be hearing is that all black belts have to register themeselves as lethal weapons! On 10/20/05, Steve Kohn wrote: > > Soccer (Football) Hooligans might just be the stupidest people on the > planet, followed of course by the skinheads. > > -- > iPat > "Intellect and intelligence do not go together. Intelligence is obtained > only when the heart and mind reach an agreement." Krishnamurti _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:21:49 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] And furthermore... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I was watching a security analyst on TV one time, and he made the point that one of the best law enforcement tools was profiling, including racial profiling. He gave several examples. One was profiling drug smugglers transporting by car. Based on intelligence, they could almost "profile" the smuggler, his car, his route and timetable, and they had a high rate of arrest just using this tool, watching specific drug lanes. If terrorists attacked, say, the US Embassy in London, and there was intelligence that a similar group would carry out a similar attack in Los Angeles, and the terrorists were all tall, Nordic looking blonde men with light-colored eyes from Scandinavian terror cells, wouldn't you start paying close attention (profiling?) tall, blonde Nordic men from Scandinavia trying to cross the border? The point is, go ahead and say racial profiling. The intent is not to discriminate or harass the innocent, but prevent our innards from being blown to kingdom come. Jay de Leon Steve Kohn wrote: Ok, I lied. I'm not done with this yet. While I agree that, for the most part, stereotyping is not cool behavior, I'd be really shocked if, as martial artists, everyone here could honestly say that people with certain looks don't cause them to put their guards up when walking down the street. Anyone that lives anyplace other than a small town would be insane not to do this. I've done enough security work to know that profiling (for lack of a better word) is part of the gig if you're going to be any good at your job. Keep in mind I DID NOT say racial profiling. I'll never agree with that. My profiling is based largely on body language. As a bouncer I became very good at identifying potential problems based on how people move and act...so I dont feel bad about a little profiling if it keeps me safe. Unfortunately, political correctness makes it very difficult to address this subject without offending people...which is not my intent. My dad was a Jewish accountant from New York, so that is proof that stereotypes can have some basis in truth even if the people that fit the stereotype are in the minority. Why else would stereotypes exist? I personally find it damn funny when someone fits a stereotype perfectly...even if it's myself. But that's just me. -Steve Kohn "The only thing worth taking seriously is humor." --Mick Goodrick - Guitarist Steve Kohn wrote: Im dumping on Neo Nazis. I have a crop. I'm talking about the hooligans that fight, vandalize and spew racial epithets. There's a theme here, and I appologize for addressing it in this context. I'll get back to FMAs. -Steve Kohn iPat wrote: i guess you ve been one? ; ) but really, working to stereotypes is base level stuff. On skinheads, are you dumping them all in as neo nazis or is it anyone with a crop? As soccer hooligans, is it the ones who may work as financial advisors or the ones who dont work? next thing i'll be hearing is that all black belts have to register themeselves as lethal weapons! On 10/20/05, Steve Kohn wrote: > > Soccer (Football) Hooligans might just be the stupidest people on the > planet, followed of course by the skinheads. > > -- > iPat > "Intellect and intelligence do not go together. Intelligence is obtained > only when the heart and mind reach an agreement." Krishnamurti _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 22:45:36 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] And furthermore... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net : ) no problem with some of this Steve, thats a different approach from what you said earlier - my reply contained the smiley. Of course the way we present ourselves can influence the way people respond to us. But when the responce is a result of simplist sensationalist news reporting then we have to be mature enough to KNOW that its not the whole picture. How many times in the many years we have been on this list Steve have we moaned - collectively - about the poor reporting of FMAers? Now, without coming out with an animal length mail I can honestly say that in my youth i made mistakes - still do - and i was definatley in both groups at one point. ive also been a bouncer and as an instructor (we are in the same familly) ive looked at people who have come in the class and made instant judgements and later been proved wrong. Im actually quite good with instinct - you develop that on the door dont you - but i have long experience of realising that 'fronts' are usually there hiding . A good friend of mine many years ago was a skinhead who worked with children. He got beaten up while walking home when he wasnt in a fit state to defend himself - not that he was a fighter anyway. Still scarred 20 years on but continued working with kids and teenagers and is recognised youth leader in the city. Both of us - i presume - detest the use of violence as a tool of fear. But theres a lot of factors in the development of young people which associating themselves to certain 'identities' is part of the process of finding their way. Yes there are a few who take the extreme, but in general they are simply people trying to find their way. The MA changed my life Steve, but i stil find that i adopt habits that my instructors have until i work through what it is imtrying to achieve. I still adopt 'brotherhoods' that give me the oppertunity to work my way through and free myself if i make it. I hope i havent offended you but do hope that i have provoked the thought process. Its not about agreement, ive said my bit, in good faith. Best regards. On 10/21/05, Steve Kohn wrote: > Ok, I lied. I'm not done with this yet. > > While I agree that, for the most part, stereotyping is not cool behavior, I'd be really shocked if, as martial artists, everyone here could honestly say that people with certain looks don't cause them to put their guards up when walking down the street. Anyone that lives anyplace other than a small town would be insane not to do this. I've done enough security work to know that profiling (for lack of a better word) is part of the gig if you're going to be any good at your job. Keep in mind I DID NOT say racial profiling. I'll never agree with that. My profiling is based largely on body language. As a bouncer I became very good at identifying potential problems based on how people move and act...so I dont feel bad about a little profiling if it keeps me safe. Unfortunately, political correctness makes it very difficult to address this subject without offending people...which is not my intent. > > My dad was a Jewish accountant from New York, so that is proof that stereotypes can have some basis in truth even if the people that fit the stereotype are in the minority. Why else would stereotypes exist? I personally find it damn funny when someone fits a stereotype perfectly...even if it's myself. But that's just me. > > -Steve Kohn -- iPat "Intellect and intelligence do not go together. Intelligence is obtained only when the heart and mind reach an agreement." Krishnamurti --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:51:03 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Secret techniques Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Judging by the way you're asking these questions, I'd say you have the answers ready to go. Bring it." Sadly, having a very short hair, watching Chelsea FC, reading Animal and Peyton Quinn as well experimenting occasionaly in the lab (read dojo) does not qualify my answers as particularly authoritative. FWIW they are yes, yes, yes and yes. Michael Koblic, Campbell River, B. C. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:54:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] And furthermore... To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jay, My experience is in concert and club security, not national security. National security has variables to consider that I have no expertise in. My bigger point is that, in my experience, there are other ways to assess a potential problem than by judging a person by the color of their skin. Be very careful in assuming that you know what others are thinking. -Steve jay de leon wrote: I was watching a security analyst on TV one time, and he made the point that one of the best law enforcement tools was profiling, including racial profiling. He gave several examples. One was profiling drug smugglers transporting by car. Based on intelligence, they could almost "profile" the smuggler, his car, his route and timetable, and they had a high rate of arrest just using this tool, watching specific drug lanes. If terrorists attacked, say, the US Embassy in London, and there was intelligence that a similar group would carry out a similar attack in Los Angeles, and the terrorists were all tall, Nordic looking blonde men with light-colored eyes from Scandinavian terror cells, wouldn't you start paying close attention (profiling?) tall, blonde Nordic men from Scandinavia trying to cross the border? The point is, go ahead and say racial profiling. The intent is not to discriminate or harass the innocent, but prevent our innards from being blown to kingdom come. Jay de Leon Steve Kohn wrote: Ok, I lied. I'm not done with this yet. While I agree that, for the most part, stereotyping is not cool behavior, I'd be really shocked if, as martial artists, everyone here could honestly say that people with certain looks don't cause them to put their guards up when walking down the street. Anyone that lives anyplace other than a small town would be insane not to do this. I've done enough security work to know that profiling (for lack of a better word) is part of the gig if you're going to be any good at your job. Keep in mind I DID NOT say racial profiling. I'll never agree with that. My profiling is based largely on body language. As a bouncer I became very good at identifying potential problems based on how people move and act...so I dont feel bad about a little profiling if it keeps me safe. Unfortunately, political correctness makes it very difficult to address this subject without offending people...which is not my intent. My dad was a Jewish accountant from New York, so that is proof that stereotypes can have some basis in truth even if the people that fit the stereotype are in the minority. Why else would stereotypes exist? I personally find it damn funny when someone fits a stereotype perfectly...even if it's myself. But that's just me. -Steve Kohn "The only thing worth taking seriously is humor." --Mick Goodrick - Guitarist Steve Kohn wrote: Im dumping on Neo Nazis. I have a crop. I'm talking about the hooligans that fight, vandalize and spew racial epithets. There's a theme here, and I appologize for addressing it in this context. I'll get back to FMAs. -Steve Kohn iPat wrote: i guess you ve been one? ; ) but really, working to stereotypes is base level stuff. On skinheads, are you dumping them all in as neo nazis or is it anyone with a crop? As soccer hooligans, is it the ones who may work as financial advisors or the ones who dont work? next thing i'll be hearing is that all black belts have to register themeselves as lethal weapons! On 10/20/05, Steve Kohn wrote: > > Soccer (Football) Hooligans might just be the stupidest people on the > planet, followed of course by the skinheads. > > -- > iPat > "Intellect and intelligence do not go together. Intelligence is obtained > only when the heart and mind reach an agreement." Krishnamurti _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest