Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 03:01:09 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #387 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Where's the Art? DB Gathering of the Pack (iPat) 2. RE: Natural fighter co-worker (Van Harn, Steve) 3. Where's the Art, Part Three (Marc Denny) 4. Re; natural fighters (Marc MacYoung) 5. Natural fighter (Michael Koblic) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:14:01 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Where's the Art? DB Gathering of the Pack Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net good luck with this On 11/15/05, Marc Denny wrote: > > Woof All: > This particular Gathering is being filmed by Original Productions with an > eye to it being a pilot for a reality TV series. OP is an established > successful company (currently airing "Monster Garage" and "Monster House") > with good connections to SPIKE TV. > > > > -- > iPat > > When you are no longer afraid, because every minute there is an ending and > therefore a renewal, then you are open to the unknown. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:25:04 -0600 From: "Van Harn, Steve" To: Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Natural fighter co-worker Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Peter Gow" wrote: Subject: [Eskrima] Natural Fighter - Co-worker Puts father in hospital Steve, "In your article you mentioned that your co-worker put his father in hospital for three months - this to me sets the alarm bells ringing. One possibility that comes to mind is that your co-worker may have possibly gained his fighting experience by being beaten up by his father on a regular basis until he could tolerate no more ...end result hospital for his father. Now if a child is beaten across the head the result of the brain moving inside the skull and being subjected to repetative bruising will have an effect. Being beaten/bashed at a young age is bound to increase pain tolerance levels as well as increase your ability to not be dominated but to be the Alpha Dog." Snip Well, interestingly we rarely talked about his childhood other than he spent most of it out hunting and running a trap line. He left home after the event. His story was that his father was a drunk that beat his mother and one day he put an end to it. They all get along well now but consensus is that the hospital stay is what put his father on the right path again. Having met his father I could definitely agree with your assessment. But my co-worker's Alpha Dog mind would certainly never be able to tell that part of the story. You present a very plausible history though, especially about pain tolerance. We used to joke that a case worker could make a career from him. He had major authority figure issues as well. Something that unfortunately affected his life in unfortunate ways. He could be a great friend but relationships always seemed to end with him. Once I read Gavin Debecker's work "The Gift of Fear" a great many things about him made sense. He fit a great many of the indicators for an obsessive personality. Once you realized what he's about he became fairly predictable even in his "unpredictability". The next step of your possibility is how is he as a father. He was very loving but I do know he kept a belt rolled up on the kitchen counter as well. Steve   --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 06:07:26 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Where's the Art, Part Three Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: "bgdebuque" brings up an interesting point when he mentions military training. For those interested in reading further about this, go to http://www.moderncombatives.org/pages/1/index.htm and start reading for reference to FMA. The Adventure continues, Crafty Dog > From: bgdebuque > > Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Where's the Art? DB Gathering of the Pack > > > Perfectly said. A full contact fighter should always attempt to reconcile > his full contact fighting experiences to what he could possibly encounter > in > a real-life combat scenario. > > Despite the limitations imposed by political correctness rules and > protective gear, full contact fighting is the closest training experience > an > MA practitioner could possibly get to a real fight-for-life situation. > > If one has doubts as to the real-life training value of full-contact > fighting, just bear in mind that foot soldiers are being made to undergo > pugil stick training (the full-contact version of bayonet fighting); > special > operations units regularly shoot at one another with paint rounds, and; > tank > crews and fighter pilots fight their first battles in simulators. > > Message: 5 >> From: "Marc Denny" > "...Sometimes a man's ego may blind him to what really happened, but > speaking for myself my attitude is to take seriously any shot that has its > consequences diminished by the fencing mask in my assessment of the > lessons > of the fight." --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:20:36 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re; natural fighters Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Folks let us NOT mistake training for fighting. More importantly, let us NEVER intentionally assume that they are one in the same. Because that is a dangerous self-delusion. >From: "Todd Ellner" >The naturals don't impress me much. Then you haven't faced any other than in the safety of your imagination. I have faced a number of them and, quite frankly they scared the living bejezes out of me. You go in with that gut sinking knowledge that -- no matter if you are alone or with back up -- "ohhhhh this is gonna hurt." These guys are Dangerous, with a capital D. And they WILL get a piece out of you. This ain't no case of you being a pro football player playing a peewee football team because of your super deadly fighting system. This is facing another professional player. Someone who is skilled, nasty, mean and is usually extremely adept at setting you with nasty nasties that you don't see. And no matter what the outcome, it's gonna hurt. These guys are the reason I came up with the slogan: Don't be so impressed about what you can do to him that you overlook what he can do to you. That is a common failing among with those with more training than experience and those who think they have not just an advantage, but superiority. Oh BTW, a lot of the naturals I knew, didn't pick on mice. They went out looking for someone who would be a challenge to them. So the badder you are, the badder you attract. That's why the pro vs. peewee league analogy. >The ones who get my respect are the >pluggers who end up eating the naturals' lunch. When the guy with loads of >talent gets to the end of where native ability will take him (or hits 30, >same thing in many ways...) he'll often quit. To quote an old Garfield cartoon, "Big deal, at the sound of the gun it was Lion 19 Villagers 1 Before these guys go down they put down a whole lot of other people...many of whom thought they were naturals until they were demonstrated to be pluggers. Using your own example, that's what? Let's say 20-25 years of putting people down before he "retires?" Or more realistically get taken out, either from behind or by an equally dangerous individual? That's a hell of a run. But, since you are obviously confusing training with experience, let's do the math. That is what 20-25 years worth of training/experience? On top of natural talent? Isn't that longer than you've been in the martial arts? Or does his training, experience and natural talent not count? While you may not be impressed with it, don't try to sell the idea that a plugger with training will succeed against these guys. Because quite frankly until you get to the sound of the gun, the plugger villagers ain't doing so hot. Being a plugger in some kind of dangerous and deadly fighting style does NOT prepare you for the danger and ferocity these guys can muster, nor the speed at which they can apply it. As Octavius said in "Rome" to Pullo (a natural) "The graveyards are filled with adequate swordsmen." And FYI, while a lot of these guys do go down, a good number of them just get old. And there's a reason they do. Like Raymond's Tio Casimiro -- now there's a story about the difference between training and application/experience. Having said this, again it comes back to the -- oh so denied in MA circles --fact that training is not the same as doing. If you wish to commend someone for their dedication to training then that is fine and dandy. It is an admirable trait and worthy of respect -- especially if the individual has begun to plumb the depths of his/her art instead of just fixating on the fighting aspect. As this thread has pointed out these kinds of individuals often do have many problems that result in them ending up in less than sterling circumstances. Many of their traits are not admirable. That having been said, whether you respect them or not, these people are very dangerous. As such they need to be dealt with accordingly and should not be underestimated. However, while you can choose to think whatever fantasy you want about "pluggers" taking them down because of training, DON'T peddle to others. That is a dangerous misconception to promote to people. I say this because your words WILL be taken and run with by people who want to believe that their training will prepare them for being the gunshot that ends the lion's game. When, in fact, if they ever found themselves in that situation their training is more likely to make them one of the 19 villagers on the lion's side of the scoreboard -- because instead of running like hell they opted to try to stand and fight. These nasties do exist out there and if it is your choice to dismiss them because you don't have to deal with them on a regular basis (or if you only deal with them with you in the pitchfork waving crowd), that is your prerogative. But don't encourage others to make the same mistake -- especially by talking BS about pluggers taking these kind of fighters down in their own arena. Marc Animal MacYoung --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:25:43 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Natural fighter Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Being beaten/bashed at a young age is bound to increase pain tolerance levels as well as increase your ability to not be dominated but to be the Alpha Dog. " Not necessarily. In some it may promote gun-shy wimpiness. The desire to slug one's abusive father may, however, co-exist. Michael Koblic, Campbell River, B. C. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest