Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:11:21 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #397 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Sling shot (bgdebuque) 2. Sling staff??? (Peter Gow) 3. Video footage of Nguni stickfighting? (Sean Brandt) 4. RE: Sling staff??? (John Johnson) 5. Re: Sling staff??? (Daniel Arola) 6. Re: [Musashi] Three Dimensional Strike Images (bgdebuque) 7. Re: Re: Musashi Miyamoto (abreton@juno.com) 8. Sling staff (David Riggs) 9. Re: ....and now back to eskrima... (Andrew Astle) 10. Happy Thanksgiving (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 02:16:00 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Sling shot Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net According to oral tradition, the all-leather (or hemp-and-leather) slingshot (as well as the blowgun and the yo-yo) were supposed to be one of the traditional weapons of the FMA. It seems, however, that the introduction of vulcanized rubber have made the leather slingshot obsolete. Nowadays, the rubber slingshot or "tirador" (and its various mutations) is still widely used as either a bird-hunting weapon of young rural Filipino boys or as a long-range silent weapon among juvenile Phillippine street gangs. > Message: 3 > From: "Lance Cross" > To: > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:12:44 -0800 > Subject: [Eskrima] cutting pattern, and a sling-staff > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > New Topic: > > I built a model Trebuchet yesterday, what came of building it was the use > of > a "sling staff"that I made from a broom handle and various material. I > understand by using centrifugal force you can increase the throw (much > like > lacrosse, only with more a mechanical advantage) does anyone know of a > martial art that incorporates the use of a sling-staff (the staff aspect, > the missle aspect and the sling can be used as a whip aspect)? > > With thanks, > > -Lance --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:24:07 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Sling staff??? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Lance, I have no knowledge of the sling staff but do know that the Austalian aborigines use a wooden extension to extend the length of the arm, the spear fits into the end of the woomera(the wooden extension) and the spear is slung that way. The aborigines use this method very effectively for hunting. Re: Your question on using a machete in the air - why not try it on a slab of meat - a leg of lamb? Regards, Peter Gow Australia --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:50:56 -0800 (PST) From: Sean Brandt To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Video footage of Nguni stickfighting? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Does anyone know where to view video footage of Nguni stickfighting? Gumagalang, -Sean Brandt __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Sling staff??? Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:20:00 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There is a website called Primitive weapons that sell Atlatls, Philippine Battle Tree Yo-Yos, blowguns and sling shots, along with many other interesting weapons, it's worth checking out. http://www.primitiveweapons.com/home.html Peace Out John >From: "Peter Gow" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Sling staff??? >Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:24:07 +0000 > >Lance, > >I have no knowledge of the sling staff but do know that the Austalian >aborigines use a wooden extension to extend the length of the arm, the >spear fits into the end of the woomera(the wooden extension) and the >spear is slung that way. The aborigines use this method very effectively >for hunting. > >Re: Your question on using a machete in the air - why not try it on a >slab of meat - a leg of lamb? > >Regards, > >Peter Gow > >Australia >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:20:20 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sling staff??? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net that sounds like what's called an "atlatl". I'm not sure if I spelled it correctly, but there's a clue for you. Daniel Arola Peter Gow wrote: Lance, I have no knowledge of the sling staff but do know that the Austalian aborigines use a wooden extension to extend the length of the arm, the spear fits into the end of the woomera(the wooden extension) and the spear is slung that way. The aborigines use this method very effectively for hunting. Re: Your question on using a machete in the air - why not try it on a slab of meat - a leg of lamb? Regards, Peter Gow Australia _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:29:26 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: [Musashi] Three Dimensional Strike Images Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think either Discovery or National Geographic made a martial arts documentary last year wherein they tried to track the movements of a kung fu practitioner in 3D using computer-linked sensors attached to key areas of the body. I think certain sword and long staff forms were part of the repertoire. I haven't gotten hold of the DVD yet but it must be somewhere out there. Message: 3 > From: AnnPeirce@aol.com > Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 23:39:33 EST > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Re:[Escrima]Musashi Miyamoto > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Lane:I understand what you mean about the strikes being more three > dimensionally. When I first started, I had all these templates that > showed different > angles for strikes. It wasn't until I started working with my instructor > that > I learned that there was a lot more to it. There are many ways to strike > at > any of these angles. Each one having its own three dimensional path. To > draw > the perfect strike would require many drawings at different angles. I > don't > know of any artist that has created such a peace of art. I would guess it > would > come from the Philippines if it existed.... Bill. > > > -- __--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > http://eskrima-fma.net > Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima > > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com > Standard disclaimers apply. > Remember September 11. > > End of Eskrima Digest --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "abreton@juno.com" Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:11:17 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Musashi Miyamoto Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net -- bgdebuque wrote: >> Interestingly, I also noticed that the book cover shows an 1848 print of >> Musashi in a double-stick pose. It seems that Kendo had its own version of >> "Sinawali" - at least back during the days of Musashi. I'm aware of 5 of Musashi's double sword techniques, and while there's no question that he took a unique approach in the kenjutsu world, you look at his techniques and they have a distinctive kenjutsu flavor. I've seen Chinese double sword forms and they have an unmistakable Chinese flavor. So my question for the group is: what do you think is unique about double stick / double sword techniques in the FMAs (whether you call them sinawali, or whether you use sinawali to name drills and differentiate it from combative use)? Obviously, Filipinos weren't the first culture to think "wow, I can have a weapon in my other hand too". How would you describe double stick / double sword compared to other two-weapons-at-once arts? Andy --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 14:52:05 -0500 From: David Riggs To: Eskrima mail list Subject: [Eskrima] Sling staff Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The "sling staff" has been used throughout history mostly for hunting. It was known and used by neolithic peoples to increase the force of their spear throws. It is most easily found under the name atlatl which is the mexican variety used by the incas. (I believe it is also used in the arctic with the traditional harpoon) The atlatl is about three feet long with a hooked or cupped end which forms a socket for the tail end of the spear. It effectively increases the reach of the throwers arm (and the velocity of the weapon) by giving the thrower a nine foot reach. The ancient greeks used a similar trick when throwing the javelin. To duplicate this slingshot effect tie an 18 inch loop of cord at the last third of the spear handle and double it back toward the weapons tip. Hook your fingers through this loop and then cast the spear in the usual overhand fashion. When you release the spear shaft hold the loop an instant longer to take advantage of the slingshot effect. You'll need a little practice, but that should give you a more powerful short range snap or extend the length of your distance throw. David@shu45.com On 11/22/05 6:01 AM, "eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net" wrote: > Message: 3 > From: "Lance Cross" > To: > Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:12:44 -0800 > Subject: [Eskrima] cutting pattern, and a sling-staff > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Bgdebuque, > > Yes, I was referring to the painting of the shrike. I had the idea that > when Musashi was not so interested in travelling learning and teaching, he > learned other disciplines (such as painting) but he admired a "perfect cut" > and put it into his artwork. I looked at practice cutting and wondered if > my patterns of cuts were going in the right direction. Swinging the sticks > for practice gets you going, but what do you do when your "blade" does what > blades do, instead of slicing air? > > I had an epiphany (spelling?) a few years ago when practicing with a pair of > nunchaku, and someone swatted them to rebound hitting my head with the free > end. I was impressed and thought about this for quite a while. Then I > started impact training and learned to use the nunchaku much more > effectively, it was much less of a threat. > > New Topic: > > I built a model Trebuchet yesterday, what came of building it was the use of > a "sling staff"that I made from a broom handle and various material. I > understand by using centrifugal force you can increase the throw (much like > lacrosse, only with more a mechanical advantage) does anyone know of a > martial art that incorporates the use of a sling-staff (the staff aspect, > the missle aspect and the sling can be used as a whip aspect)? > > With thanks, > > -Lance --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 16:12:22 -0500 From: Andrew Astle To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] ....and now back to eskrima... Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pat wrote: >On 11/21/05, Wylie Mitchell >As to Silat and Kali, what is your take on siniwalli techniques within each- >good points and bad,not which you think is better as a sysytem... but what >you see within each systems technique as to double stick? There you have the >floor: > > as i have never been exposed to Silat stick fighting methods i cant comment > >-- >Pat >www.amag.org.uk >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > > Greetings, As a Pentjak Silat Serak practitioner/instructor, I can tell you we do teach the single stick, double stick, staff, and stick and dagger. I can compare FMA and Serak stick fighting due to my background as a Lacoste/Inosanto kali instructor and they tend to be very different. Double stick in Serak is done with a longer stick held in the left hand and this can be held in the middle. It is used primarily as a shield. The right stick tends to be shorter and much heavier (like Serrada and used similarly). We like to very aggressively close the gap and execute a sambut (throwing/joint locking/sweeping technique) at close range,which is the preferred range of Serak. We do have striking methods which look like the redondo and abaniko (badan watik) and something like kambiatta or cadena real is a favorite entry . There is a 9 angle numbering system called Bintang Sembilan (star nine) much like the 9 universal angles of attack. I could go on at length, but that should give you a good impression of the double stick, which is the favored impact weapon phase, with the single stick being a training method to prepare the student to learn double stick. Now for a controversial statement: sit down and watch "Enter the Dragon" again. Watch Bruce Lee use the double stick, that is very much like Serak. (Ever wonder why he chambered the sticks like that? Now you know.) By the way, a friend of mine has recently started a Lacoste/Inosanto Kali program at the same school I teach Serak at: North East Martial Arts Institute at 114 River Street, Cortland New York. We also offer Jun Fan/JKD there, too. Hormat, Pembantu Guru Andrew Astle --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:40:03 -0800 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Happy Thanksgiving Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Wishing all those in the USofA a Happy and thankful Thanksgiving. Ray --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest