Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:14:28 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #399 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sling Staff (bgdebuque) 2. Re:[Musashi] Sinawali (bgdebuque) 3. Thanx (Peter Gow) 4. Video footage of Nguni stickfighting? (Sean Brandt) (Gibson Kente) 5. Nguni stickfighting targets (Gilmour, Julian) 6. Re: Video footage of Nguni stickfighting? (Sean Brandt) (Charles Martin) 7. Re: Video footage of Nguni stickfighting? (Sean Brandt) (Ray) 8. Re: Sling Staff (Ray) 9. atlatl et al. (Young Forest) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:41:57 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sling Staff Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the link. It's an interesting site. Their newest offering was even the infamous Philippine "pana". You mind find it interesting that out there in the streets of the Ilonggo-speaking area of the Philippines, the "pana" (which is a Tagalog term) is known as the "Indian Target". There is another type of street slingshot projectile which is more deadly than the "Indian Target". It is known as the "White Rabbit". Because it is quite difficult to make, probably only a few among the younger generation still knows how to make it. > Message: 4 > From: "John Johnson" > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Sling staff??? > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:20:00 -0500 > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > There is a website called Primitive weapons that sell Atlatls, Philippine > Battle Tree Yo-Yos, blowguns and sling shots, along with many other > interesting weapons, it's worth checking out. > > http://www.primitiveweapons.com/home.html > > > > > > Peace Out > John --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 23:10:16 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re:[Musashi] Sinawali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My preferred approach to combat is similar to the "I was born with 9 weapons" approach of Muay Thai. Sticks are just the extension of your arms. Since, like most of us, I was born with arms that are of equal length, for me, "doble baston" or "sinawali" is a much more natural way of starting stick training. It is also the best way to develop ambidexterity in your techniques. I look at single stick as "fighting with one of your arms longer than the other". BTW, during the time of Musashi, there were supposed to be a considerable number of Filipinos who tagged along with Spanish missionaries when they went to Japan. Acccording to Victor Harris' 'Five Rings, during the last years in the life of Musashi, he lived in a heavily-Christianized area of Japan. It might even be possible that the double stick technique were brought home from Japan by Filipinos. This could possibly explain why double-stick is particularly popular in Northern Philippines but not so much in Southern Philippines. > I'm aware of 5 of Musashi's double sword techniques, and while there's no > question that he took a unique approach in the kenjutsu world, you look at > his > techniques and they have a distinctive kenjutsu flavor. I've seen Chinese > double sword forms and they have an unmistakable Chinese flavor. > So my question for the group is: what do you think is unique about double > stick / double sword techniques in the FMAs (whether you call them > sinawali, > or whether you use sinawali to name drills and differentiate it from > combative > use)? Obviously, Filipinos weren't the first culture to think "wow, I can > have a weapon in my other hand too". How would you describe double stick > / > double sword compared to other two-weapons-at-once arts? > Andy > > -- __--__-- --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 06:35:29 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Thanx Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net John, Thanks for the primitive weapons website. I now know what a sling staff is. An interesting site. Best Regards, Peter Gow Australia. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:17:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Gibson Kente To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Video footage of Nguni stickfighting? (Sean Brandt) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have some footage of Nguni stickfighting a live traditional tournament in the Eastern Cape the style used is Xhosa, it uses no shield only double sticks. I believe Burton Richardson released a video on Zulu stickfighting. But these two are just one little aspect of Nguni fighting styles. I got this post by him on the net from Duluxe martial arts forums " Regarding Zulu stickfighting, the first thing that makes it different from FMA is that they use a shield and long defending stick in the left hand, stick in the right hand. The left foot is usually forward. The whole trick is to get around that shield, which means the strikes are very deceptive. Lots of feints, set-ups, and "progressive indirect attacks". The main form of practice is sparring. (Almost exclusively sprarring!) I learned by going to South Africa into the Zulu village areas and sparring with them on several different trips, the most recent being last November. I use some of the tactics in Dog Brother style sparring. A few of their feints and misdirections can be used to very good effect in single stick sparring. If you want to learn more about it, I do have a two tape set available on Zulu Stickfighting at www.jkdunlimited.com." I haven't seen the Burton tapes yet. Will try and provide some footage when I manage to convert mine from VHS to DVD. There are others that I have seen claiming to show Nguni stickfighting and I must be honest they are mostly a load of *****. There should also be a differentiation between tourist stickfighting and the real deal. Tourist has no knees elbows, headbuts and no grappling ( people wearing skins). The real deal can get much nastier. attached are some picks of the real and the tourist see if you can spot the difference. G. --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of induku.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Zulu_Stick_Fighting_2.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of xhosaboys1.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of circus.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of ntonga.gif] --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 13:15:04 -0000 From: "Gilmour, Julian" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Nguni stickfighting targets Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all I noted from the recent posts that the ribs are considered one of the major targets of nguni stickfighting. I read an article about tekkan kalari (sp?)stickfighting (from India) recently. This also said that the ribs were a target, and also that they were considered one of the 'fatal' targets on the body, along with the temple etc. IMHO Floating ribs are certainly a good target for empty hand strikes or a number 3/4 strike (Inosanto/Lacost), but I am unaware of any vital points that have the capacity to kill around this area of the body. Am I missing something? Can any of you TCM or pressure point officionados tell me something I don't know or is a possible fatality just BS? Empty your cup Julian ############################################################################# ######## This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by NetIQ MailMarshal The recipient of this email should ensure that it is virus free. We do not accept any liability for any virus that may be conveyed with this email. ############################################################################# ######## --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 06:29:57 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Martin Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video footage of Nguni stickfighting? (Sean Brandt) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello, Where can I see footage of the stickfighting? There are not attachments to this e-mail, so do you have a website where the footage is being shown. Thank you, Charles Gibson Kente wrote: I have some footage of Nguni stickfighting a live traditional tournament in the Eastern Cape the style used is Xhosa, it uses no shield only double sticks. I believe Burton Richardson released a video on Zulu stickfighting. But these two are just one little aspect of Nguni fighting styles. I got this post by him on the net from Duluxe martial arts forums " Regarding Zulu stickfighting, the first thing that makes it different from FMA is that they use a shield and long defending stick in the left hand, stick in the right hand. The left foot is usually forward. The whole trick is to get around that shield, which means the strikes are very deceptive. Lots of feints, set-ups, and "progressive indirect attacks". The main form of practice is sparring. (Almost exclusively sprarring!) I learned by going to South Africa into the Zulu village areas and sparring with them on several different trips, the most recent being last November. I use some of the tactics in Dog Brother style sparring. A few of their feints and misdirections can be used to very good effect in single stick sparring. If you want to learn more about it, I do have a two tape set available on Zulu Stickfighting at www.jkdunlimited.com." I haven't seen the Burton tapes yet. Will try and provide some footage when I manage to convert mine from VHS to DVD. There are others that I have seen claiming to show Nguni stickfighting and I must be honest they are mostly a load of *****. There should also be a differentiation between tourist stickfighting and the real deal. Tourist has no knees elbows, headbuts and no grappling ( people wearing skins). The real deal can get much nastier. attached are some picks of the real and the tourist see if you can spot the difference. G. --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of induku.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Zulu_Stick_Fighting_2.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of xhosaboys1.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of circus.jpg] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of ntonga.gif] _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lot's of someone's, actually. Yahoo! Personals --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video footage of Nguni stickfighting? (Sean Brandt) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 06:40:39 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of induku.jpg] > > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of Zulu_Stick_Fighting_2.jpg] > > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of xhosaboys1.jpg] > > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of circus.jpg] > > [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of ntonga.gif] Obviously, attachments will always be removed to prevent virus passing. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sling Staff To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 07:41:17 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Thanks for the link. It's an interesting site. Their newest offering was > even the infamous Philippine "pana". You mind find it interesting that out > there in the streets of the Ilonggo-speaking area of the Philippines, the > "pana" (which is a Tagalog term) is known as the "Indian Target". > ... > > > From: "John Johnson" > > > > ... > > > > http://www.primitiveweapons.com/home.html Very interesting website. How is the pana used? It looks like the dart is simply flung using the pana... is that correct? Not traditional, but it is difficult to top the more modern wrist rocket for pure power. Great tool for dismissing small rodents... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 15:41:26 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] atlatl et al. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There's a few messages I wanted to reply to: >From: bgdebuque > >Nowadays, >the rubber slingshot or "tirador" (and its various mutations) is still >widely used as either a bird-hunting weapon of young rural Filipino boys When I was in highschool, one of the janitors, a Greek gentleman, mentioned to me that he used to protect crops from birds with a slingshot when he was a kid. >From: Daniel Arola > >that sounds like what's called an "atlatl". Atlatl, woomera, amentum (as the Romans called it), even da Vinci had a design or two in his sketches. It's an interesting thing to study parallel evolution of weapons. >From: bgdebuque > > I think either Discovery or National Geographic made a martial arts >documentary last year wherein they tried to track the movements of a kung >fu >practitioner in 3D using computer-linked sensors attached to key areas of >the body. I think certain sword and long staff forms were part of the >repertoire. I haven't gotten hold of the DVD yet but it must be somewhere >out there. I think it was Discovery. Although the graphics were *amazing*, with the point of view flying all over the place (including inside the ribcage) the rest of the show was horrid - presented sport karate and XMA as some sort of ultimate, killer martial art. Badger Siling Labuyo Arnis --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest