Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:08:24 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #402 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. DB Gathering (Marc Denny) 2. Re: Musashi (Pat) 3. Tabasan (T David Reyes) 4. Re: Musashi (Ray) 5. mushasi (Gordon Walker) 6. Re: Rules used in the SEA Games (Ray) 7. Re: [Escrima] Filipino "Pana" (bgdebuque) 8. Re: Musashi (and sinawali) (bgdebuque) 9. Re: Panabas (bgdebuque) 10. Mr. Miyagi has died. He was 73 (Hindley) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:38:39 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] DB Gathering Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Our "DB Gathering of the Pack" was held this past Sunday-- one of the best (and biggest) we have ever had-- and I have been floating in the afterglow since then. I will try to post a report this coming week. The Adventure continues, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:30:33 +0000 From: Pat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Musashi Cc: Ollie@savate.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hmmm. i'm sure i have a book on Elizabethan fencing where some drawings have charachters with a long and short weapons. each country would put their stuff in the melting pot at some time. Ollie Batts is usually a source of information on this. On 11/25/05, Lance Cross wrote: > > In my studies of sword fighting of Europe (no expert here) was that many > people did not fight two weaponed, with the exclusion of shields in the > statement. They often regarded highly of people who could wield two > weapons > at once. The flourentine (spelling?) was a reference to a famous place > (in > italy?) where people commonly learned to street fight using two weapons > (swords, but unsure if they were the same length) a proper FMA daga was > described to me as being "about 20 inches long" with the main sword being > only 10 to 12 inches longer. > > -- > Pat > www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 07:18:26 -0800 From: T David Reyes To: Subject: [Eskrima] Tabasan Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net on 11/25/05 3:01 AM, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net at eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > also could someone explain to me about the term > "panabas" which I took as a two handed machete. Your root word being "tabas" or tabasan as in "too cut off the top" or "too lob off". In Iloko we say "pantabas" referring to the actual agricultural tool used in cutting tall grass and the like. Best Regards, David Reyes- --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Musashi To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 07:52:02 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Hmmm. i'm sure i have a book on Elizabethan fencing where some drawings have > charachters with a long and short weapons. each country would put their > stuff in the melting pot at some time. > Ollie Batts is usually a source of information on this. Spanish fencing became very advanced in the area of rapier and dagger. The sword was worn longer there as part of fashionable dress than in other parts of Europe. Thus more time was spent developing this fighting style. Many in and out of the RP think that this fact contributed heavily to the FMAs. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:38:18 -0700 From: Gordon Walker To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] mushasi Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net HI, In conversations with my Ninjutsu friends, I believe Mushasi set up his duels so that he would have the sun at his back. A use of the environment to aid himself in fighting. Gord --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Rules used in the SEA Games To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:11:23 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > rules and regulations for Sport Arnis in the SEAGames. The > practitioners of Silat (Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei), Krabi Krabong > (Thailand), Thine (Myanmar), and Viet Vu Dao (Vietnam) have all agreed > to this single rule set since the rules favor no particular art. Anyone have first hand knowledge of Thine or Viet Vu Dao? I am not familiar with these stick/weapon arts. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:12:31 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: [Escrima] Filipino "Pana" Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The main disadvantage of the "pana" launched from an I-frame slingshot is underpenetration. The single piece of rubber band is just not powerful enough to penetrate with sufficcient depth the human skull. We used to do comparative penetration testing of "pana" launched from both the Y-frame and I-frame slingshots using empty fuel drums. >From the terms "pinuti", "flamenco" and "tres cantos", it is obvious that the FMA is heavily-influenced by Spanish MA (at least in the Chritianized areas of the Philippines). The knifefighting style of Spanish gypsies, for example, is sometimes also called "flamenco". "Tres cantos" is similar to the 3-bladed dagger. The blade shape of a "pinuti" (and even the Batangas balisong), on the other hand, is highly-similar to the Spanish navaja. > > Message: 3 > From: "Jorge Penafiel" > To: > Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:23:09 -0500 > Subject: [Eskrima] Filipino "Pana" > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I'm Ilongo born and raise in La PAz, Iloilo City. Back then, Ilongo > "Tambay/Kanto Boy/Bogoys" (Street gang members) choice for canceled > self-defense weapons were either the efficient short blade " pinuti, > plamingo, Balisong, tres cantos" and/or projectile > weapon such as "pana". Later, the illegally made firearms "Paltiks"came > about. Quite sure the early pana was an off-shoot of the typical 2 rubber > sling-shot > modified to shoot darts instead of ball bearings, marbles, etc., The > darts > were long usually made using 6 inch nails. As it was too bulky to put into > one's pocket, it was further modified into a single rubber sling attached > to > a short stick and using shorter and faster darts (~3-4"). Humans' > ingenuity > for innovation at work here... > -- __--__-- --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 18:22:41 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Musashi (and sinawali) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I typed "double-sword technique" at the Google search bar and guess what the first hit was?... "Kuk Sool Won double long sword". There might be a few double-sword styles out there but, so far, Musashi is the only fully-documented user of the "double-stick". By the time Musashi settled in Kyushu in 1634 (together with his adopted Iori), he already had with him his "double-stick" style. There is no question of his interaction with Christians at that time because this have also been well-documented. In his Five Rings translation, this is what Harris wrote: "Musashi was a member of the field staff at Shimawara were the Christians were massacred." This, on the other hand, is what Harris wrote on the activities of Iori: "... and as a captain in Tadazane's army fought against Christians in the Shimawara uprising of 1638." Although I have to find material on these, it is also highly probable that Macabebe mercenaries from Pampanga in the employ of Spanish missionaries also fought on the side of the Japanese Christians. If proven true, this might explain why "sinawali" is primarily a Macabebe style. > Message: 9 > From: "Peter Gow" > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:42:19 +0000 > Subject: [Eskrima] Musashi > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Having read the book of five rings and talked to some people that have > done the Japanese translation I was informed that Musashi used his two > sword practice early on in his life not later. It is more than likely > that Musashi picked up the technique from the Portugese who would > practice sword play with daggers on the docks in Japan. > > A point of logic is that it is�more logical to use two swords than one > and remember Musashi was trained by� buddhist monks�which may have > influenced his view point. Now�as many of these monks came from China who > is to say that he did not pick up the technique from the monks as there > are many Chinese MAs that use two swords�which differ from the Phillipino > Arts. > > Regards, > > Peter Gow > > Australia --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 19:23:32 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Panabas Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My memory is a little fuzzy on this but I think the "panabas" refers to the long-handled canecutting tool. "A heavy bladed machete attached to a 4-foot pole" could also be good layman's definition. It is swung like a sling-blade to literally mow down stands of sugarcane. In addition to the "panabas", the typical cane worker also has an "espading" with him. The "espading" is a machete with some kind of a gut hook. The "espading" is used to "clean" the cane of leaves and other unwanted appendages before it is loaded to a hauling truck. These blades may not be unique to the Philippines because as, I remember it, the popular "espading" blades in use were usually imported from Spain or South America. As for the dart launcher's of the Philippines, other than "pana" what could > they be called (want to look up more information) on primitive (yet > effective weapons) also could someone explain to me about the term > "panabas" which I took as a two handed machete. I looked up the term on > the > internet and many crime reports came up with incidents of Bolo and Panabas > being used to commit serious assaults and murders. Can "panabas" refer to > anything but the classical two handed heavy machete? > > With thanks, > > -Lance Cross --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Hindley" To: Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:41:24 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Mr. Miyagi has died. He was 73 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Even though Ralph Macio(sp) was not the best portrayal or mabe he was, Mr. Miyagi's wisdom and the movies of the Karate Kid werte instramental in our MA path. Much Respect to Pat Morita Greg Hindley Douglasvill, GA LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Actor Pat Morita, whose portrayal of the wise and dry-witted Mr. Miyagi in "The Karate Kid" earned him an Oscar nomination, has died. He was 73. Morita died Thursday at his home in Las Vegas of natural causes, said his wife of 12 years, Evelyn. She said in a statement that her husband, who first rose to fame with a role on "Happy Days," had "dedicated his entire life to acting and comedy." In 1984, he appeared in the role that would define his career and spawn countless affectionate imitations. As Kesuke Miyagi, the mentor to Ralph Macchio's "Daniel-san," he taught karate while trying to catch flies with chopsticks and offering such advice as "wax on, wax off" to guide Daniel through chores to improve his skills. Morita said in a 1986 interview with The Associated Press he was billed as Noriyuki "Pat" Morita in the film because producer Jerry Weintraub wanted him to sound more ethnic. He said he used the billing because it was "the only name my parents gave me." He lost the 1984 best supporting actor award to Haing S. Ngor, who appeared in "The Killing Fields." (Watch a profile of Morita -- 2:10) For years, Morita played small and sometimes demeaning roles in such films as "Thoroughly Modern Millie" and TV series such as "The Odd Couple" and "Green Acres." His first breakthrough came with "Happy Days," and he followed with his own brief series, "Mr. T and Tina." "The Karate Kid," led to three sequels, the last of which, 1994's "The Next Karate Kid," paired him with a young Hilary Swank. Morita was prolific outside of the "Karate Kid" series as well, appearing in "Honeymoon in Vegas," "Spy Hard," "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues" and "The Center of the World." He also provided the voice for a character in the Disney movie "Mulan" in 1998. Born in northern California on June 28, 1932, the son of migrant fruit pickers, Morita spent most of his early years in the hospital with spinal tuberculosis. He later recovered only to be sent to a Japanese-American internment camp in Arizona during World War II. "One day I was an invalid," he recalled in a 1989 AP interview. "The next day I was public enemy No. 1 being escorted to an internment camp by an FBI agent wearing a piece." After the war, Morita's family tried to repair their finances by operating a Sacramento restaurant. It was there that Morita first tried his comedy on patrons. Because prospects for a Japanese-American standup comic seemed poor, Morita found steady work in computers at Aerojet General. But at age 30 he entered show business full time. "Only in America could you get away with the kind of comedy I did," he commented. "If I tried it in Japan before the war, it would have been considered blasphemy, and I would have ended in leg irons. " Morita was to be buried at Palm Green Valley Mortuary and Cemetery. He is survived by his wife and three daughters from a previous marriage. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest