Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:43:54 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #408 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. DB Unorg'ed Militia PArt 3 (Marc Denny) 2. JUST A FEW LAUGHS (james jr. sy) 3. Re: Documented by bgdebuque (Bart Hubbard) 4. Re: Two-Handed Style (james jr. sy) 5. Two Sticks from other countries (Peter Gow) 6. Two handed style. (Peter Gow) 7. Re: White Rabbit - on the head axe (Felipe Jocano) 8. Re: Video clip: 93 year old (Felipe Jocano) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:30:26 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] DB Unorg'ed Militia PArt 3 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof BG et al: Junkyard is not a big guy, and to look at him one would not suspect him capable of something like this. OTOH I have watched him fight for several years now and having seen the calm composure with which he fights whether it goes his way or not and the learning attitude he applies to the experience, well, I am not surprised. His teacher Pappy Dog is glowing with pride at the moment, and the rest of us bask in reflected glory. Moments like this powerfully remind us of who we are and what we have come for, we the unorganized militia who seek to walk each day a warrior for all our days. The Adventure continues, Crafty Dog > From: bgdebuque > I consider what you have described as probably the highest form of MA > practical application. JD must literally have balls of steel to be able > to > pull this off (pardon my language...). He definitely can be considered > as one with "corazon" in the best tradition of the FMA. > > -- __--__-- > > Message: 6 > From: "Marc Denny" > This just in from Pappy Dog: > ============== > > > Gentleman, Ladies and the rest of you, > > Junkyard Dog foiled a bank robbery in Hemet California. It seems a man, a > very 'gang-memberish looking man' robbed a bank in Hemet. He then used a > bicycle as his get away car. Hearing the screams of the teller, JD went in > pursuit of the man. It must be said that his Girlfriend, affectionately > named "Satan" was right along side. Once they caught up with the man, he > grabbed Susan (Satan) and tried to use her as a shield. She immediately > began hitting him and broke free. Junkyard Dog grabbed the man and took > him > to the ground. He then used a Kali arm lock to keep him there until the > Police arrived. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 20:54:29 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" To: Estrella Yogore , Sharilyn Suyo , Christine Sy , James Allen Sy , Joseph Sy , Vilma Tan , Jack Tentia , Joey Arnold Toga , Rhea Tomaro , Ricardo Toribio , Gerard Tortosa , Desiree Tumpag , Francis Tumpag , Miguel Valdes , Ricardo Valdes , Jodee Villa , Sergio Villanueva , Edgar Manabat , Edgard Managbat , Kim Maninantan , Shiela Mae Millevo , Ned Nepangue , Archie Rico Ng , John Owen Ong , "Anatolio Jr. Pabion" , mary salve pe , Oliver Perez , "redrichfrost@yahoo.com" , Rhoda , Lindsly Russell , Maria Russell , Maria Jesusa Russell , Alih Estimo , Cecille Ferrer , Cecille Ferrer , Ferdinand Emmanuel Gayoles , Imelda Gerochi , Philip Go , John Paul Gonzaga , Faith Marla Juguan , Ann Lacson , Henried Lamayo , Ying Kit Lau , Rowena Libato , Alexis Diane Lorenzo , Janet Malundo , dana lou aguilar , Dana Lou Aguilar , "Roberto Jr. Alaban" , Hansy Alojado , Arnel Bauda , Liezel Belonio , Alex Biboso , JESUS ALEXANDER NOBLEZA BIBOSO , Francis Carranza , Nanneth Celebre , Elvin Certeza , Hazel Collado , Hazel Collado , Josephine Cua , Sheiden De La Cruz , Mary Joy Depon , Sally Claire Diesto , Sally Claire Diesto , Julie Elisan Subject: [Eskrima] JUST A FEW LAUGHS Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://media.putfile.com/womandrawing http://media.putfile.com/Stunt-Ninja86 http://media.putfile.com/coats http://media.putfile.com/yougotownedwmv --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:11:52 -0800 (PST) From: Bart Hubbard To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Documented by bgdebuque Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey There, Just thought I'd point out that Pigafetta was not Spanish and not a Friar. He was Italian and a paying passenger on the voyage who by fate and attrition of the crew was deemed to write its history. Bart Hubbard www.capitaldocepares.com Message: 1 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 01:04:12 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Documented Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In the case of Magellan, I think it is also documented that certain key members of his expedition managed to return to Spain (his chronicler - the Spanish friar Pigafetta... --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 21:35:53 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Two-Handed Style To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Of the long weapons category, tapado is the most popular here in rgw Negros Island. However, there are other obscure forms of Negrense long stick fighting arts. Oido de caburata, founded by the late Great Grandmaster Anotnio "Toñing" Tolosa in Murcia in about 1936/1937, have evolved a long stick fighting subsystem which is now called hagbas bugang, said to be founded by the late Grandmaster Peding Abendan, who was one of the teachers of the late Grandmaster Romeo "Nono Mamar of Bago City, the founder of original Filipino tapado. One of my teachers, the late Grandmaster Honorio "Norio" C. Togle of Murcia, the founder of Togle style modern arnis, had shown us some long stick techniques which he called madras. Another teacher of mine, Grandmaster Max Recto of Kabankalan City had also mentioned to me this madras. Madras is wielded in a similar manner as one would a bayonet (double ended application of the stick). Meanwhile, the bayoneta carada of Cadiz City evolved fromt he bayonet techniques of the late Grandmaster Benito Agui, a World War II infantryman. According to former Arnis Philippines Negros Occidental Commissioner Maxwell J. Maun, La Carlota City have its own minangkas, which is similar to English quarterstaff fighting. Tapado itself has different interpretations and sophistication, depending on the kineage one learns the art. All the above mentioned arts are indigenous to the Negros Island. RJ Garcia wrote: In my opinion, I can agree that two-handed styles of wielding weapons are embedded in arnis/eskrima in so far as they are afterthoughts and not really focused on. All of the arnis/eskrima styles I have come across use only one hand in wielding a weapon. In my experience of arnis, one may need to reinforce a thrust coming from serrada position with the live hand, but here the second hand pushes on the wrist and does not hold the weapon. Tapado is the only FMA system I have come across that focuses on wielding the weapon with both hands, and predominantly uses up and down movements. There are quite a few relatively heavy weapons in the Philippines, like the kampilan and the panabas. The kampilan in my knowledge is still predominantly a single-handed weapon, and if one looks at the design of the handle, it is fit only for one hand and the second hand has to hold on to the elongated butt end. The panabas in Luzon (Nueva Ecija area) is an agricultural tool and is normally around 30 inches long, and is used by farmers single handedly even if half of the length of the weapon is composed of the handle. Personally though, I can say that I can possibly apply the basics I have learned in single stick and largo mano to a two handed weapon, though I have to get used to the relative slowness of the weapon (such as a tapado or bangkaw held at one end). For defenses against two-handed weapons, largo mano concepts of timing and range coupled with trapping can work. The barong is probably the moro weapon you are talking about, bgdebuque, and is also a single-handed weapon. It has a wide blade and looks like a leaf. Google it and you will surely find good examples and descriptions. It is a weapon used by the Tausug people of Muslim Mindanao. On the side, these moro weapons such as the kris, kampilan, panabas, and barong, are symbols of the people that they represent. These moro weapons are not are used here in the Philippines by practitioners of arnis/eskrima. The moros have their own martial heritage, that of silat and kuntaw. People from Luzon have the dinahong-palay, balisong, bolo, panabas, etc., while in Visayas they have their own blades, such as the pinuti, ginunting, lampirong, and others. Of course, their are cross cultural influences and parallelisms, like the barong having a semblance to the lampirong, a Cebuano weapon. For Filipino FMA practitioners, seeing an arnisador brandishing a kampilan is somewhat like seeing an practitioner of Spanish fencing holding an English Sabre. rj --- bgdebuque wrote: > I think most Arnis/Eskrima schools have a two-handed > style embedded in their > curriculum. The only one I have personally seen > publicly acknowledge it so > far is Giron Arnis Escrima with their "Tero Pisada" > style. > > I have heard that Tapado Arnis of Negros Occidental > primarily teaches a > two-handed single long stick style. I think their > contact details can be > found in the Negros FMA website somebody posted > about a week ago. > > The Muslim tribes of Southern Philippines, of > course, once gained notoriety > for their double-handed heavy sword (I think it is > called the "balong" but I > am not that sure). It has been documented that this > sword can slice through > the stock and barrel of the a Krag, Enfield or > Springfield rifle. > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 1 > > From: "Lance Cross" > > To: > > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:25:48 -0500 > > Subject: [Eskrima] White Rabbit > > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > Do many FMA practice defense against a two handed > weapon? or defense with a > two handed weapon other than the staff (bankaw?) > > -Lance > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:39:56 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Two Sticks from other countries Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net James, In Krabi Kabong they do do two swords as part of their weaponry and without weapons the practitioner reverts to Muay Boran the ancient form of Muay Thai. Also in Cuong Nhu they do two sticks. Peter Gow Australia --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:44:11 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Two handed style. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have to agree with Ray. The accounts that I read - Magellan being killed by a kampilan.  Regards, Peter Gow Australia --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 01:55:56 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] White Rabbit - on the head axe To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Lance: It was for actual use. Headhunting was usually an ambush affair, at least from the accounts that are extant. No description of their use exists that I know of (unless someone out there is sitting on any of the early ethnographies circa early 1900s)so I can't say much about the technique used. Bot > All, > > Recently I reseached through google "Frederick's > Moro" book platelettes on > many pages they appear, they had an odd looking > axes, the blade was convex > curved and was pointed at the top tip and it was > referred to as a head axe. > My question was this for removal after defeat or is > it an actual weapon. __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:05:21 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video clip: 93 year old To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I saw the clip, and man, I hope I can move like him at 93. Come to think of it, I hope I can still move at all by then :-) Bot --- Jye nigma wrote: > Got this from another group, the author is a die > hard BGZ man: > > jye > > > Here a clip of an old Wushu master named Ma > ZhenWu demonstrating the > eighteen –arhat boxing at the age of 93 years old. > Now I like for > you to post a clip of a 93-year-old Korean man that > can top this > demonstration. Or better yet, post a 93-year-old TDK > master > demonstrating his art with flexibility, agility, and > stable stances > at this same martial level. Or better yet why not > post your self > demonstrating at the level of this old me in this > clip.LOL > > http://media.putfile.com/93-year-old-Wushu-master-Ma-ZhenWu > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million > songs. Try it free. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest