Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:36:21 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #409 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sling Staff (John Johnson) 2. RE: Thanx (John Johnson) 3. RE: Mr. Miyagi has died. He was 73 (John Johnson) 4. Re: [Escrima] Enrique, Magellan's slave (bgdebuque) 5. FMAdigest Survey (Punong Guro Steven Dowd) 6. Re: Arnis rules in SEA Games (Steve Ames) 7. Two hands (Marc Denny) 8. Re: Musashi (and sinawali) (abreton@juno.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sling Staff Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:16:31 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net You are very welcome, at some point i am considering placing an order from him. Peace Out John >From: bgdebuque >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Sling Staff >Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:41:57 -0500 > >Thanks for the link. It's an interesting site. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Thanx Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 08:59:09 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I am glad you found the site useful. It seems the site was a hit, I'm glad I posted it. Peace Out John >From: "Peter Gow" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [Eskrima] Thanx >Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 06:35:29 +0000 > >John, > >Thanks for the primitive weapons website. I now know what a sling staff >is. An interesting site. > >Best Regards, > >Peter Gow > >Australia. >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Mr. Miyagi has died. He was 73 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:04:07 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net wow, 73, I had the pleasure of meeting Pat Morita on the Karate Kid 2 movie set...my Uncle was the fight choreographer on those films. He seemed like a nice enough guy, though beyond meeting him I didn't interact with him. My condolences to his family and friends. Peace Out John >From: "Hindley" >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [Eskrima] Mr. Miyagi has died. He was 73 >Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 16:41:24 -0600 > >Even though Ralph Macio(sp) was not the best portrayal or mabe he was, Mr. >Miyagi's wisdom and the movies of the Karate Kid werte instramental in our >MA path. > >Much Respect to Pat Morita > > > >Greg Hindley > >Douglasvill, GA > > > >LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- Actor Pat Morita, whose portrayal of the >wise and dry-witted Mr. Miyagi in "The Karate Kid" earned him an Oscar >nomination, has died. He was 73. > >Morita died Thursday at his home in Las Vegas of natural causes, said his >wife of 12 years, Evelyn. She said in a statement that her husband, who >first rose to fame with a role on "Happy Days," had "dedicated his entire >life to acting and comedy." > >In 1984, he appeared in the role that would define his career and spawn >countless affectionate imitations. As Kesuke Miyagi, the mentor to Ralph >Macchio's "Daniel-san," he taught karate while trying to catch flies with >chopsticks and offering such advice as "wax on, wax off" to guide Daniel >through chores to improve his skills. > >Morita said in a 1986 interview with The Associated Press he was billed as >Noriyuki "Pat" Morita in the film because producer Jerry Weintraub wanted >him to sound more ethnic. He said he used the billing because it was "the >only name my parents gave me." > >He lost the 1984 best supporting actor award to Haing S. Ngor, who appeared >in "The Killing Fields." (Watch a profile of Morita -- 2:10) > >For years, Morita played small and sometimes demeaning roles in such films >as "Thoroughly Modern Millie" and TV series such as "The Odd Couple" and >"Green Acres." His first breakthrough came with "Happy Days," and he >followed with his own brief series, "Mr. T and Tina." > >"The Karate Kid," led to three sequels, the last of which, 1994's "The Next >Karate Kid," paired him with a young Hilary Swank. > >Morita was prolific outside of the "Karate Kid" series as well, appearing >in "Honeymoon in Vegas," "Spy Hard," "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues" and "The >Center of the World." He also provided the voice for a character in the >Disney movie "Mulan" in 1998. > >Born in northern California on June 28, 1932, the son of migrant fruit >pickers, Morita spent most of his early years in the hospital with spinal >tuberculosis. He later recovered only to be sent to a Japanese-American >internment camp in Arizona during World War II. > >"One day I was an invalid," he recalled in a 1989 AP interview. "The next >day I was public enemy No. 1 being escorted to an internment camp by an FBI >agent wearing a piece." > >After the war, Morita's family tried to repair their finances by operating >a Sacramento restaurant. It was there that Morita first tried his comedy on >patrons. > >Because prospects for a Japanese-American standup comic seemed poor, Morita >found steady work in computers at Aerojet General. But at age 30 he entered >show business full time. > >"Only in America could you get away with the kind of comedy I did," he >commented. "If I tried it in Japan before the war, it would have been >considered blasphemy, and I would have ended in leg irons. " > >Morita was to be buried at Palm Green Valley Mortuary and Cemetery. > >He is survived by his wife and three daughters from a previous marriage. >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:30:20 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: [Escrima] Enrique, Magellan's slave Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Some history teachers in the Philippines like to make fun of the claim that Lapu-Lapu is supposed to be "The First Filipino Hero". They would always say that if one could travel in time and interview Lapu-Lapu himself he wouldn't even had a clue what a Filipino is... =[:->] Based on written accounts, Lapu-Lapu and Humabon do not belong to the same ethnic group. Lapu-Lapu's tribe is supposed to be "people of the sea". This means that they would either be Bugis, Badjao or Orang Laut. I suspect that they are Bugis, considered as the Phoenicians of Southeast Asia and currently the predominant bloodline among the royal families of Malaysia. I suspect Enrique is also Bugis, which explains why although he was picked up from Sumatra, he can communicate with certain people in the Visayas). Humabon, like most Visayans, is probably of Dayak ancestry (ie. Bornean). Dayaks are well-known for their tattooing tradition (they practically chronicle their life on their bodies). I think Spaniards used to call most Visayans as "Pintados" (the painted or tattoed ones). Message: 9 Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:49:00 -0800 (PST) From: Leo Salinel To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Enrique, Magellan's slave Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net There is much speculation as to whether Enrique was a Visayan from Cebu or was from the same Malayan ethnic group from which the Visayans came (from the Moluccas? Bugis?). Remember, in the 1500s, the Filipinos were not yet that distinguished from the rest of the Indonesian-Malay archipelago. For example, the Tausugs and the people of Brunei are directly anthropologically related (the Sultan of Brunei and the Sultan of Sulu are actually related, sort of like the German monarchs were to the Romanovs of Russia). Earn $$ just by receiving and reading email! http://www.resource-a-day.net/member/index.cgi?Brandon96 __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs -- __--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:32:12 -0800 (PST) From: Punong Guro Steven Dowd To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMAdigest Survey Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net FMAdigest had a survey to see if there was interest in putting some of the issues in print. Only 9 responded. So if those 9 will send me their email addresses. Then if FMAdigest prints up what was offered they will be the first to have the opportunity to get them at a discount. Arnis Balite www.arnisbalite.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Steve Ames" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Arnis rules in SEA Games Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:05:41 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net bgdebuque wrote: > I think these rules are fundamentally sound. It indirectly > acknowledges the fact that the art is blade-based. This acknowledgement, even indirectly, is a good thing. > In actual blade fighting, there is no other choice but to have a > "point-fighting" mindset. Yeah. There's where we'll have to disagree. The "Point-fighting" mindset that I've experienced in competitions translates to "Its OK to leave yourself open to all manner of counter attacks as long as you can move fast enough to hit the other guy first". Actual blade fighting is about survival and not, necessarily, hitting/stabbing/cutting the other guy. The "point-fighting" mindset de-emphasizes defense. It doesn't allow for taking a lesser injury to get in a fight ending counter-attack. Its flawed. A better ruleset would be that first hit is valid _UNLESS_ the defender scored an even better hit within 1s. If both hits were good I'd award both sides the point. But if the counter hit was superior (in force or placement) then the original attacker should not be rewarded for demonstrating poor technique. -steve --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:06:08 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Two hands Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: In DBMA, two handed weaponry (dos manos and staff) is an important category because we feel that in order to be able to adapt and improvise with what one's environment may offer (as well as having selected weapons) means that one must be able to handle items which by their nature require two hands. Our principal influences in this regard are Inosanto Blend and Pekiti Tirsia, with Kabaroan (GM Ramiro Estalilla of Fresno) and Kalimbo (sp?-- also a Negrense style to which I was exposed while in Negros with GT Gaje) also making contributions. The Tapado which James Jr. references can be seen in Tape 6 "The Stick vs. Other Weapons" of our "Real Contact Stickfighting" series. IIRC Ron Harris mentioned learning from GM Nono Mamar. Although Top Dog came out on top on the two occasions witnessed therein, that does not mean that the results could not have been otherwise against a different man. I think it safe to say that all of us came away with respect for the system and its capabilities. James, I for one would be glad of any further description of the Negrense long stick systems you mention. You say that the Togle madrases (not to be confused with "madrassas" I trust ;-) ) are " wielded in a similar manner as one would a bayonet (double ended application of the stick)"-- by this you mean as a rifle with a bayonet would be wielded? And how does this differ from/overlap the "bayoneta carada"? > From: "james jr. sy" > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Two-Handed Style > > Of the long weapons category, tapado is the most popular here in rgw > Negros Island. However, there are other obscure forms of Negrense long > stick fighting arts. > > Oido de caburata, founded by the late Great Grandmaster Anotnio "Toņing" > Tolosa in Murcia in about 1936/1937, have evolved a long stick fighting > subsystem which is now called hagbas bugang, said to be founded by the > late Grandmaster Peding Abendan, who was one of the teachers of the late > Grandmaster Romeo "Nono Mamar of Bago City, the founder of original > Filipino tapado. > > One of my teachers, the late Grandmaster Honorio "Norio" C. Togle of > Murcia, the founder of Togle style modern arnis, had shown us some long > stick techniques which he called madras. Another teacher of mine, > Grandmaster Max Recto of Kabankalan City had also mentioned to me this > madras. Madras is wielded in a similar manner as one would a bayonet > (double ended application of the stick). > > Meanwhile, the bayoneta carada of Cadiz City evolved fromt he bayonet > techniques of the late Grandmaster Benito Agui, a World War II > infantryman. > > According to former Arnis Philippines Negros Occidental Commissioner > Maxwell J. Maun, La Carlota City have its own minangkas, which is similar > to English quarterstaff fighting. > > Tapado itself has different interpretations and sophistication, depending > on the kineage one learns the art. > > All the above mentioned arts are indigenous to the Negros Island. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "abreton@juno.com" Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:39:07 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Musashi (and sinawali) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Interesting discussion on double stick / sinawali / Musashi. I don't think I got my original question answered: "what do you think is unique about double stick / double sword techniques in the FMAs? How would you describe double stick / double sword [in the Filipino arts] compared to other two-weapons-at-once arts?" I don't want to get too far afield with Japanese arts, but I do want to voice a slightly alternate opinion (don't worry, I'll get back to FMA below). Misashi may have been famous for dueling with two swords, but I'm not sure other schools didn't have two sword forms. I know of one, Katori Shinto Ryu, that has three kata. The ryu dates back to 1387. Musashi visited them, OTOH the KSR people supposedly have scrolls pre-dating him that show their kata, so it may ultimately be a chicken-and-egg question. Musashi got the press, though, and in all fairness I think two swords was a minor sideline for other schools. I don't know if Musashi abandoned double sword. The five kata I'm familiar with have the same names as the five attitudes he writes of in the Book of Five Rings, which as you know was written near his death. They're common names (chuden, gedan, waki, etc.) and he may not have meant that section to be specifically about two sword technique given the general nature of the rest of the work. OTOH, his single sword and short sword techniques mostly have different names. To my limited knowledge, there's no record of him using two swords *in duels* in his latter life, but he may have seen some value in their practice, as the double sword practice found its way into the school founded by his students. He seems to me the type who keeps searching and adding to his knowledge, so maybe he never went back to them. I'm no expert on his life (or Japanese arts), so I could be totally off base on all this. The five kata I'm familiar with from Musashi's school are very focused on timing and positional 'trapping'. I've seen the latter in a number of arts, but in the FMA most similar in the little I've been exposed to in Derobio (Pedoy) escrima. It made me think of the different approaches to doble in FMA, because the Pekiti doble I know doesn't have the same focus. I could probably find it in there if I looked, but I wouldn't say it's the main focus. Hence my question. As an aside, I watched part of "The Man with the Golden Gun" over the week-end. Bond is supposed to be in Hong Kong at a martial arts temple, but I could swear that the two guys fighting two swords were doing Kabri Kabrong. Had the long-handled weapons and everything. Then the next guy did "karate". Andy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest