Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:26:17 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #411 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Rules used in the SEA Games (marko.ronkainen@nokia.com) 2. Re: Two Sticks from other countries (james jr. sy) 3. just a yehey (tenrec) 4. Sundry comments (Marc Denny) 5. Re: Rules used in the SEA Games (Sonny Padilla) 6. Re: Two-Handed Style (John Johnson) 7. Re: Video clip: 93 year old (Michael Gallagher) 8. RE: [Eskrima] http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm (John Johnson) 9. RE: [Eskrima] http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm (John Johnson) 10. Re: RE: [Eskrima] (Ray) 11. Re: Video clip: 93 year old (Steve Kohn) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Rules used in the SEA Games Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:54:37 +0200 From: To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >-----Original Message----- >From: ext Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] >Sent: 25. marraskuuta 2005 19.11 >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Rules used in the SEA Games > >> rules and regulations for Sport Arnis in the SEAGames. The >> practitioners of Silat (Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei), Krabi Krabong >> (Thailand), Thine (Myanmar), and Viet Vu Dao (Vietnam) have >all agreed >> to this single rule set since the rules favor no particular art. > >Anyone have first hand knowledge of Thine or Viet Vu Dao? I >am not familiar with these stick/weapon arts. No first hand, but it's been featured frequently in Paris Bercy Martial arts gala. I think it's quite popular in France. http://www.vovinam-vietvodao.net/ http://www.vietvodao.com/ http://www.vietvodao.net/ http://www.arpnet.it/vodao/ewelcome.htm some video clips: http://www.vovinam-vietvodao.net/?opcion=Clips http://users.skynet.be/vovinam/videos.htm The stick part of the art is (as in FMA) only one part of it. - Marko --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 02:08:30 -0800 (PST) From: "james jr. sy" Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Two Sticks from other countries To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Pete, Thanx for the info on Cuong Nhu. I wasn't aware they have weapons work. The Cuong Nhu double sticks, are they Vietnamese in origin or an assimilation from another culture? James Sy Peter Gow wrote: James, In Krabi Kabong they do do two swords as part of their weaponry and without weapons the practitioner reverts to Muay Boran the ancient form of Muay Thai. Also in Cuong Nhu they do two sticks. Peter Gow Australia _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:02:54 +0000 From: tenrec To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] just a yehey Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Natahey listers! Felipe Jocano > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video clip: 93 year old > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I saw the clip, and man, I hope I can move like him at > 93. Come to think of it, I hope I can still move at > all by then :-) > > Bot Of course you will... 93 is the new 83 : ) BTW my friend was able to get e some neat rattan sticks from a place near the Ateneo U... forgot the name of the place but the sticks were very decent for the price at lengths of 28" all the way to 33" in length, nice weights and good noding... take care all! tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com, tenrec2@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 06:53:21 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Sundry comments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Comments interspersed > From: Ray > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Two hands > >> The Tapado which James Jr. references can be seen in Tape 6 "The Stick >> vs. >> Other Weapons" of our "Real Contact Stickfighting" series. IIRC Ron >> Harris >> mentioned learning from GM Nono Mamar. Although Top Dog came out on top >> on >> the two occasions witnessed therein, that does not mean that the results >> could not have been otherwise against a different man. I think it safe >> to >> say that all of us came away with respect for the system and its >> capabilities. > > Al Concepcion also studied Tapado from Mamar and had great things to > say about the system. I know that he was a real convert and evangelized > at the drop of a hat. > > If I recall correctly, on Tape 6 the young Filipino guy w/Ron does a lot > better with his Tapado than did Ron. Again, IIRC, his angles were just > different enough to cause more of a problem when closing. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com As I reread my post I see it is unclear. By "two occasions" I intended to communicate that there were two different fighters. The second one was Joe Tan, who was not "w/Ron" and yes he used more angles and was harder to close on. > From: Michael Koblic > > > 2) Multiple weapons. In the Krabbi Krabong seminar I attended I was told > that the training in sword starts with double sword and progresses to a > single sword. I was also told that statistically single sword will beat > double sword in an encounter. Is this related to training and skill level? > I > mean is there a level of skill up to which the second weapon simply gets > in > the way and you are more likely to be defeated through this encumbrance > but > then there is a sort of giant step with further training when the second > weapon becomes an asset? > What would the resident gurus use in preference in an encounter if the > choice were limited to the following: single 28" stick, double 28" stick? > Would the choice be different if the choice were single katana or katana > and > a wakizashi/tanto? Rapier (40" blade) or rapier and a dagger? Speaking for myself, I prefer double. It may take some sustained work to get to the payoff, but when reached IMHO extends one's fighting skills for many years. I readily admit to my approach being more stick than blade based, but off the top of my head think that the advantages become even more pronounced with blade. > 3) Long weapons. Guro Crafty has a nice DVD out on staff based on Pekiti > Tirsia. Please do not allow my quibble to interfere with your compliments :-) but the principal influence is Inosanto Blend. What is the optimum length of an impact weapon? What about weight? I > suspect the two will interact and a heavier weapon will need to be shorter > to be manoeuvrable depending on the strength and built of the wielder. But > I > suspect also that there is a point beyond which the length becomes > counterproductive. I haven't seen many succesful fighters using the > proverbial 10-foot barge pole... Ummm, , , , it depends. The optimum length of the weapon will depend upon the nature of the material. For example if it is brittle, that would mitigate against length. If it is rough (bark, splinters, rust, etc) sliding hands may be out-- so maybe you will want to play what we call a "thirds grip", i.e. one palm up and one down with the the sections of the staff defined by your grip being roughly equal in length. Diameter will play a role, and so too will the wielder's strength and the nature of his technique. > It is good to walk like a warrior for all one's days,but if we have to > limp > along that path, we may as well be supported by the best stick available > :-) In DBMA we say that there are many "idioms of movement" and we prefer to "specialize in generalizing". Our goal is to have competence in as many idioms as we can so that we are best enabled to adapt and improvise with what the environment may offer. That said, it is only natural to have a length to which one tends to gravitate. For me, at present, it is 5' rattan and about 1" diameter. Changing subjects: > > From a single-stick arnis-eskrima perspective, this means that if your > lone > stick forearm gets intercepted with sufficient force by your opponent, > whatever subsequent strike you were able to make after the interception > would already be void because, in a real blade fight, you would have no > longer been in a position to deliver the strike after the interception was > made. > > This should be an entirely different matter, however, in a double-stick > bout. If your right forearm, for example, was intercepted but you still > managed to strike your opponent's neck with your left stick, then you > should > be declared the winner because, in a real blade fight, you may have lost > your right forearm but your opponent, on the other hand, willl have > literally lost his head... Wandering unsolicited out of my usual turf, this makes sense to me for a tournament , , , and many situations. Of course judging all this can be more than a little tricky , , , There is also the matter of the pyscho killer sewing machine attack developed to a frightening degree in some US prisons. I am reminded of Don Pentecost's observation that "You just pump him until he's dead, then you bind your wounds". The mindset assumed by these rules is not present with such an individual. As PG Edgar Sulite would say "In a blade fight you have three chances: One, you are better than him and he dies. Two, he is better than you and you die. Three, you are roughly equal and you both die." Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Sonny Padilla" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Rules used in the SEA Games Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:42:43 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sounds good and clear. Thank you, Sonny >From: RJ Garcia >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Rules used in the SEA Games >Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 03:25:12 +0000 (GMT) > >The in the full contact rules of Arnis Philippines, >valid target areas for slashing/chopping strikes are >the entire body, except for the back of the torso (the >vicinity of the spine). Plus the groin area for males. >For thrusts, exceptions as valid targets are the head >and throat, as currently the headgear does not >adequately protect the face/throat against these. > >Even the soles of the feet are valid target areas. > >It must be pointed out, though, that for a strike to >be regarded as a point, it not only has to be on a >valid area, it also has to pass certain criteria. >Legitemate strikes are that which are clearly seen, >having sufficient power and intent. As such, "tagging" >or merely touching the opponent with the stick, and >mindless flailing of the stick are not considered for >points. > >I hope this aids somewhat in clarifying the rules. > >Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Two-Handed Style Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:19:48 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net It has been documented that this sword can slice through >the stock and barrel of the a Krag, Enfield or Springfield rifle. The same claim has been said of the katana...Steel swords can not slice, cut, hack of chop through steel, it's not possible, why do you think medieval European armor was so effective, that is why axes, war hammers and picks became so popular and the weapon of choice among knights and men at arms, after their lances of course but I digress from the main subject so i'll turn this back to FMA and the experts here whom I learn so much from on a daily bases. Peace Out John > > > > -- __--__-- > > > > Message: 1 > > From: "Lance Cross" > > To: > > Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:25:48 -0500 > > Subject: [Eskrima] White Rabbit > > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > >Do many FMA practice defense against a two handed weapon? or defense with a >two handed weapon other than the staff (bankaw?) > >-Lance >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:45:21 -0500 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Michael Gallagher Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video clip: 93 year old Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At 05:05 AM 11/28/2005, you wrote: >I saw the clip, and man, I hope I can move like him at >93. Come to think of it, I hope I can still move at >all by then :-) Given that my mother started Tai Chi at the age of 78 and kept at it faithfully until her death ~18 months later, that someone can be that active at 93 is something she would have found inspirational. >Bot > >--- Jye nigma wrote: > > > Got this from another group, the author is a die > > hard BGZ man: > > > > jye > > > > > > Here a clip of an old Wushu master named Ma > > ZhenWu demonstrating the > > eighteen ­arhat boxing at the age of 93 years old. > > Now I like for > > you to post a clip of a 93-year-old Korean man that > > can top this > > demonstration. Or better yet, post a 93-year-old TDK > > master > > demonstrating his art with flexibility, agility, and > > stable stances > > at this same martial level. Or better yet why not > > post your self > > demonstrating at the level of this old me in this > > clip.LOL > > > > >http://media.putfile.com/93-year-old-Wushu-master-Ma-ZhenWu > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million > > songs. Try it free. > > _______________________________________________ > > Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members > > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > > Resource > > Standard disclaimers apply > > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:34:45 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: [Eskrima] http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Here is a link on Filipino and moro swords that i found interesting and I thought I would share with the forum. http://home.earthlink.net/~federicomalibago/links.html Question has anybody purchased or have any experience with the Cold Steel, CAS Iberia or Kris Cutlery Filipino swords. Just curious of quality and authenticity of the weapons, before I make a purchase, or am I better off finding a sword maker in the Phillipines, which I would prefer, but it's of course not easily accessable to me at this time. Peace Out John >From: Ray >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) >Subject: [Eskrima] http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm >Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:45:28 -0800 (PST) > >A portion of my little collection of fun FMA and Indonesian weapons. > >http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:38:49 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: [Eskrima] http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sorry I posted the wrong link here is the right one. http://home.earthlink.net/~federicomalibago/index.html Peace Out John >From: Ray >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) >Subject: [Eskrima] http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm >Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 19:45:28 -0800 (PST) > >A portion of my little collection of fun FMA and Indonesian weapons. > >http://www.martialartsresource.com/filipino/sword.htm > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: [Eskrima] To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:41:08 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Question has anybody purchased or have any experience with the Cold Steel, > CAS Iberia or Kris Cutlery Filipino swords. Just curious of quality and > authenticity of the weapons, before I make a purchase, or am I better off > finding a sword maker in the Phillipines, which I would prefer, but it's of > course not easily accessable to me at this time. I have limited experience with CAS Iberia. A friend bought a katana from them. It turned out to be of low quality inspite of the high price. Cecil Quirino of Kris Cutlery is a friend, so I am rather biased as to his products. I have purchased a number of his older collectible pieces that came from the Sulu area, but few of his production blades. However both were of excellent quality. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:36:08 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video clip: 93 year old To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I've seen video of Juanito "John" Lacoste when he was 86 teaching Guru Inosanto. It was amazing! -Steve Kohn bgdebuque wrote: I would consider myself lucky if I ever reach 60... =[:->] BTW does anyone have any idea on who is the oldest arnis-eskrima performer ever recorded on video? I can only remember GM Visitacion but I don't know how old he was on that video recording. Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 02:05:21 -0800 (PST) > From: Felipe Jocano > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video clip: 93 year old > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I saw the clip, and man, I hope I can move like him at > 93. Come to think of it, I hope I can still move at > all by then :-) > > Bot > > --- Jye nigma wrote: > > > Got this from another group, the author is a die > > hard BGZ man: > > > > jye > > > > > > Here a clip of an old Wushu master named Ma > > ZhenWu demonstrating the > > eighteen –arhat boxing at the age of 93 years old. > > Now I like for > > you to post a clip of a 93-year-old Korean man that > > can top this > > demonstration. Or better yet, post a 93-year-old TDK > > master > > demonstrating his art with flexibility, agility, and > > stable stances > > at this same martial level. Or better yet why not > > post your self > > demonstrating at the level of this old me in this > > clip.LOL _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest