From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #412 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: RE: [Eskrima] (John Johnson) 2. Footage of Manong Lacoste (Marc Denny) 3. Re: Video clip: 93 year old (Ray) 4. Re: I am new to the group (G. Kente) (RavenSire@aol.com) 5. Kampilan (Ray Terry) 6. Re: Footage of Manong Lacoste (Steve Kohn) 7. Re: single or double? (bgdebuque) 8. Re: Video clip: 93 year old (Steve Kohn) 9. Re: Two-handed style (bgdebuque) 10. Long staff (Michael Koblic) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] RE: [Eskrima] Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:22:58 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thank you Ray, I have been wondering about Kris cutlery for some time now. I have a sword and cutlery place not far from me and the owner said he would order for me, but I wasn't sure of the quality. Peace Out John >I have limited experience with CAS Iberia. A friend bought a katana from >them. It turned out to be of low quality inspite of the high price. > >Cecil Quirino of Kris Cutlery is a friend, so I am rather biased as to his >products. I have purchased a number of his older collectible pieces that >came from the Sulu area, but few of his production blades. However both >were of excellent quality. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:46:32 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Footage of Manong Lacoste Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: I would not be worthy of my sobriquet if I failed at this moment to mention that thanks to the gracious permission of Guro Inosanto, some of this footage may be seen on our DVD/video "The Grandfathers Speak" Crafty Dog > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:36:08 -0800 (PST) > From: Steve Kohn > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video clip: 93 year old > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I've seen video of Juanito "John" Lacoste when he was 86 teaching Guru > Inosanto. It was amazing! > > -Steve Kohn --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video clip: 93 year old To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:26:53 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I've seen video of Juanito "John" Lacoste when he was 86 teaching Guru > Inosanto. It was amazing! Is that the video of Johnny performing in the Stockton park? If so, I don't think he was teaching that day as much as demoing. Cacoy is ~86.5 right now and still does public demos at the drop of a hat. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: RavenSire@aol.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:56:54 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] I am new to the group (G. Kente) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net g.kente, welcome to the group! there is a lot to learn and share from the group. we will learn from you as well! stay strong, ra! --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:03:30 -0800 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Kampilan Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Good info from Frederico on the kampilan. Ray Terrry california.eskrima@gmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- Kampilan Moro kampilan The kampilan is the weapon most favored by the warriors of Mindanao. This large single edged blade is considerably noted for its fearsome look and at total lengths ranging up to 40 inches it is the largest Moro sword. It also is notably the only true two-handed sword of Philippine origin. The kampilan were truly a war sword, and every well-stocked Mindanao arsenal had a number at the ready for battle. While in many court photos, one often sees kampilan bearers, it is alluded that the kampilan was not a weapon of common carry (like the kris, barong, or pira), but rather one of the campaign and court. As such, the kampilan was representative of a Datu/Rulers prestige/power in as much as it was a physical representation of the Datu/Ruler's ability to control violence either positively or negatively. Related to the parang the kampilan blade is quickly identified by its distinctive taper, narrow at the forte, and gradually swelling in width to the tip, giving the blade profile an almost trapezoidal appearance. The kampilan blade often features damascene patterning. There are many variations to the kampilan tip. Some kampilan blades sport a spikelet at the tip, but it must be noted that not all kampilan have this spikelet. Some were never made with the spikelet, but on certain pieces often due to the fragility of the spikelet, upon close inspection, it is discovered that it has in fact broken off. Some say that the spikelet is purely ceremonial/decorative, but others assert that it serves as a key distraction when countering an enemy blow thereby allowing an effective un-impeded counter cut. Often one will find kampilan blades with decorative holes near the tip. Quite often these holes are filled with brass. Rarer still, some kampilan tips feature kris like fretwork. Some kampilan blades also featured engraved blades, with heavily engraved blades appearing near the late 1800s to early 1900s. It is speculated that these kampilans are perhaps early attempts at creating tourist blades, as the intricate engraving would not be typically be visible as status markers, as it would be a severe cultural faux paux to bare an un-sheathed blade in court, or generally in a non-war related situation. The hilt form is quite large thereby extended as a counter balance to the large blade. The kampilan hilt is generally bifurcated in what some say is symbolic of the open jaws of a crocodile. However, others assert that this motif is representative of the tail of the swiftlet (a bird common to the area that produce edible nests that are highly valued in Chinese cuisine). There do exist other variants, beyond the common bifurcated hilt. The kampilan hilt can be used single-handed but when necessary the wielder is able to use the sword in a two-handed fashion. It must be noted that traditionally the hilt was bound to the hand of the wielder to prevent slippage. The lashings used to bind the weapon were called munsala, and sometimes served as anting-anting as well. However, munsala were not always used for binding a weapon to the hand, and were often decorative or attached primarily for talismanic purposes. Also often there existed a mail, gauntlet like covering that was attached to the hilt during battle via metal staples that covered the hand of the wielder. However, since these metal staples and gauntlets often covered the okir carving on the hilt, they were often removed when not in ready for battle. Kampilan hilts were made of various native hardwoods such as kamagong (Philippine Ebony), but some extremely high end kampilan hilts were completely silver plated, or made of such rare materials such as ivory or bone. Kampilan scabbards tended to be very simple. Often when going to battle scabbards would not even be used. However traditionally the scabbard tended to be of two pieces of native hardwood that was held together by a thin natural fiber string or rattan lashing, thereby allowing the scabbard to be cut through in case of emergency. Also there existed a "travel" scabbard made of tubular reed. Some scabbards featured a handle, which allowed the scabbard to be used as a make shift shield if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:08:25 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Footage of Manong Lacoste To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Marc, As soon as I look up the meaning of "sobriquet", I'm gonna have to consider picking up your DVD. Hope you're doing well. Chirp, Steve Marc Denny wrote: Woof All: I would not be worthy of my sobriquet if I failed at this moment to mention that thanks to the gracious permission of Guro Inosanto, some of this footage may be seen on our DVD/video "The Grandfathers Speak" Crafty Dog > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:36:08 -0800 (PST) > From: Steve Kohn > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video clip: 93 year old > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I've seen video of Juanito "John" Lacoste when he was 86 teaching Guru > Inosanto. It was amazing! > > -Steve Kohn _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:20:44 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] single or double? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I once asked an Okinawan karate blackbelt who is giving an impromptu lecture on how to disarm an attacker with a "ginunting" on what one should do if the same attacker has 2 "ginuntings". Without batting an eyelash, he simply said: "Run!"... > > Message: 4 > From: "Marc Denny" > To: > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 06:53:21 -0800 > Subject: [Eskrima] Sundry comments > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > > What would the resident gurus use in preference in an encounter if the > > choice were limited to the following: single 28" stick, double 28" > stick? > > Would the choice be different if the choice were single katana or katana > > and > > a wakizashi/tanto? Rapier (40" blade) or rapier and a dagger? > > Speaking for myself, I prefer double. It may take some sustained work to > get to the payoff, but when reached IMHO extends one's fighting skills for > many years. I readily admit to my approach being more stick than blade > based, but off the top of my head think that the advantages become even > more > pronounced with blade. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 18:22:14 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Kohn Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Video clip: 93 year old To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, Yeah...that's the footage. From what I gather, there was a fine line between teaching and demoing with Lacoste. Whatever the case, It was good stuff! I've heard nothing but great things about Cacoy's demos. Unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure of seeing him in a seminar setting. My friend/whip instructor Tom Meadow's has told me many cool stories about Cacoy. Best, Steve Ray wrote: > I've seen video of Juanito "John" Lacoste when he was 86 teaching Guru > Inosanto. It was amazing! Is that the video of Johnny performing in the Stockton park? If so, I don't think he was teaching that day as much as demoing. Cacoy is ~86.5 right now and still does public demos at the drop of a hat. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:23:29 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Two-handed style Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In the hands of the right person, medieval broadswords were supposed to be effective against medieval armor - whether plate or chain. A katana (like a rapier) is a light sword. The heft of a kampilan, on the other hand, would be similar to that of a broadsword. Its energy upon impact, however, might be even higher than that of a broadsword because it is top-heavy (wider at the tip). Ray will be in a better position to corroborate this because he has a kampilan in the picture of the partial collection of Philippine blades he owns. Of course, it might also be possible that the barrel of the Krag, Enfield or Springfield in question simply broke into two after the kampilan blade sliced through the wooden stock. After all, these rifles are all bolt-action types devoid of the gas mechanism (which means more metal) present in repeating rifles. BTW when you buy a balisong in the streets of the Philippines, the traditional standard test is for the vendor to use the blade you want to buy to pierce a 1-peso coin, if the blade was not able to do that, one is not supposed to buy it. Testing first one's intended weapon against metal is part of the FMA tradition... Message: 6 > From: "John Johnson" > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Two-Handed Style > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:19:48 -0500 > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > >It has been documented that this sword can slice through > >the stock and barrel of the a Krag, Enfield or Springfield rifle. > > The same claim has been said of the katana...Steel swords can not slice, > cut, hack of chop through steel, it's not possible, why do you think > medieval European armor was so effective, that is why axes, war hammers > and > picks became so popular and the weapon of choice among knights and men at > arms, after their lances of course but I digress from the main subject so > i'll turn this back to FMA and the experts here whom I learn so much from > on > a daily bases. > > > > Peace Out > John --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 20:30:35 -0800 From: Michael Koblic To: Eskrima digest Subject: [Eskrima] Long staff Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "Please do not allow my quibble to interfere with your compliments :-) but the principal influence is Inosanto Blend." OK...sorry...confused! Trip to Philipines, Tuhon Gaje, malay staff, keeping feet flat etc., etc. I somehow associated all this with Pekiti Tersia. I guess I have to watch again, more closely. One minor additional point: Most people who taught me the long staff did not stress the need to twist the grip at impact (e.g. as is recommended when using the katana). I do not believe this is mentioned in the DVD either. Do you believe it makes difference? No difference? Personally, I prefer to do it when whacking something hard as otherwise the thumbs do not like it much... Michael Koblic Campbell River, BC --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest