Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 03:01:16 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #415 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2200 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Swords cutting through other steel (bgdebuque) 2. Re: The Killer Sewing Machine Attack (Pat) 3. Cutting Steel with Steel (buz_ed_alias@mac.com) 4. RE: Cutting Steel with Steel (John Johnson) 5. The Rapid Rotation Baton System (Ray Terry) 6. "Kali Means to Scrape" Screening in California (Ray Terry) 7. Blades versus Armour Plate (Marc MacYoung) 8. Re: pocket sticks (RavenSire@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 23:10:39 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Swords cutting through other steel Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net If the right conditions are present, there is no question that a bladed weapon can slice through sheet or tubular metal (I have personally done this using the typical leaf spring heavy-bladed Philippine chopping bolo-the "binakoko" against tin cans, light-gauged GI sheets, as well as tubular aluminum) . In general, the factors which will determine whether or not a succesful "slice" can be made are as follows: 1. The hardness of the cutting metal vis-a-vis the metal being cut 2. The sharpness of the cutting edge of the cutting metal 3. The size of the surface area of the initial point of contact (the smaller the better) 4. The angle at which the cutting metal strikes the surface of the metal to be cut (90 degrees is the best) 5. The mass of the cutting metal (the heavier, the better) 6. The velocity at which the cutting metal will strike the surface of the metal to be cut (just remember that the formula for kinetic energy is E=1/2 MV2) Nos. 3 & 4 more or less explain why, if all other factors are equal, it is always easier to pierce the surface of another metal with a thrust as compared to a slash. A slash, on the other hand, will always have a distinct advantage to a thrust with respect to No. 6 because of its circular motion (although it is possible to "inject" a thrust movement with a subtle circular motion). In the "balisong-through-a-coin" example I gave, therefore, what is being tested by the buyer is primarily No. 1. Nos. 4 & 6, however, will determine whether or not Mr. Balisong Seller has the technique and strength to close a sale. We train to strike in the FMA primarily to address Nos. 3, 4 & 6... > Message: 5 > From: Steve Klement > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:34:56 -0500 > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Swords cutting through other steel > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > Mr. Johnson - > > I cannot comment for certain about the rest of it all but I can say > this... I myself have put a Barong through the hood of a car (not a > new "plastic" kind of car either - it was an old 70's Dodge). --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:12:46 +0000 From: Pat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Killer Sewing Machine Attack Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net are we talking single or double stitch? ; ) On 12/1/05, Argyll - wrote: > > OK, you've piqued my interest. Lets here some strategies for responding > to > the "killer sewing machine." > > Best regards, > > Argyll > -- > Pat > www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 3 From: buz_ed_alias@mac.com Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:24:22 -0500 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Cutting Steel with Steel Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Back in the day Lynn Thompson of Cold Steel did extensive testing on his blades cutting various sorts of steel. I went to his site and tried to retrieve the info, but couldn't find it with a quick check. I do still remember the horror and awe I felt when I first encountered his tests: horror because he was totally destroying the blade I was scrimping and saving to buy, and awe that he was so interested in testing the limits of his products that he was willing to go wherever the data lead and publish the results. I'm working from long ago memory here, but as I recall his conclusion was that a modern, tempered steel blade could cut or pierce untempered steel, though specific techniques had to be applied. Mr. Thompson is a bit of an iconoclast, think some of his research started with the Buck knives claim that their blades could be pounded through a steel bolt (Buck's logo back then showed just that). When Thompson could not replicate the act with knives he felt were superior, he tried to discern what the trick was. Turned out that an untempered stove bolt could be cut if you put the blade in one of the bolt's threads and then tapped on it with a hammer until it cut through. Attempts to cut a bolt with one big swing of the hammer, however, proved fatal to the knife. Wouldn't surprise me to find that this is a fairly straightforward function of Rockwell hardness with a blade say at least 10 points harder than another steel able to be coaxed through the softer steel. Not sure I'd want a blade that had endured one of these tests on my hip, though, when the going gets rough as my experience is abused blades tend to fail a lot faster than ones that are well treated. Indeed, I'd be curious to learn what medieval armorers did with weapons after a major battle like say Agincourt. They must have assessed the blades and damage done to decide what was salvageable; if anyone has any sources I'd be interested. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "John Johnson" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Cutting Steel with Steel Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 11:59:48 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Buz i just posted your question on a medieval sword forum, perhaps I can get those sources for you, i also would be curious to know the answer to your question. Peace Out John > >Wouldn't surprise me to find that this is a fairly straightforward >function of Rockwell hardness with a blade say at least 10 points harder >than another steel able to be coaxed through the softer steel. Not sure >I'd want a blade that had endured one of these tests on my hip, though, >when the going gets rough as my experience is abused blades tend to fail a >lot faster than ones that are well treated. Indeed, I'd be curious to >learn what medieval armorers did with weapons after a major battle like >say Agincourt. They must have assessed the blades and damage done to >decide what was salvageable; if anyone has any sources I'd be interested. > >Regards, > >Buz Grover >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:26:21 -0800 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Rapid Rotation Baton System Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Of possible interest... http://www.rrbsystems.com/Products/Getting%20to%20know%20the%20RRB.pdf -- Ray Terrry california.eskrima@gmail.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 14:22:28 -0800 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] "Kali Means to Scrape" Screening in California Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Martial Arts History Museum Special Movie Screening Friday, 02 December 2005 Nick Papadakis Film "Kali Means to Scrape" Screening in California NORTH HOLLYWOOD, CA, (NAMC) - The Martial Arts History Museum is proud to present a special screening of the soon-to-be released documentary "Kali means to Scrape." The newly produced film by producer Nick Papadakis. "Kali means to Scrape" shows the reality of men who fight with blades and the culture that surrounds it. What is revealed is their strength, their brutality, and their humanity. The documentary explores how men have taken their means of survival and forged it into a higher art. Baston, Escrima, Arnis and Kali are some of the names given to these skills that go beyond being a martial art. "One of the goals of the Martial Arts History Museum is to create an understanding of Asian cultures and traditions. This is where our arts came from and its important that we understand the significance of these art forms and how important these arts are to each country," notes Museum president Michael Matsuda. The special screening is a rare opportunity to have a glimpse into Filipino culture and see how the art in practiced in the mother country. Special events such as this takes place on a monthly basis at the Museum's satellite office in order to provide an education understanding of the Asian community. Details: When: Saturday, Dec. 3 Time: 11am to 1pm Where: Valley Martial Arts 5638 Lankershim Blvd. North Hollywood, CA 818 769-0436 Note: The screening is free to Museum Members, $5 donation to non-members. For additional information, please visit the Museum website at www.MartialArtsHistoryMuseum.com. About The Martial Arts History Museum The Martial Arts History Museum was originally launched as a project in 1999. It first began with the establishment of a non-bias, non-advertising related Martial Arts Hall of Fame. It was the brainchild of kung fu pioneer Michael Matsuda. The first public ceremony for the Hall of Fame was on November 18, 2001 at Gerald Okamura's 6th Annual Dragonfest Martial Arts Convention. Over the years, the Hall of Fame and the museum drew more attention, as of 2004, over 250,000 votes were received for the Hall of Fame. As a result of this interest, museum president Michael Matsuda decided to go forward and establish the Martial Arts History Museum as a fully, non-profit organization. The Martial Arts History Museum is not a Who's Who of the martial arts, but a museum that is focused on the history of these arts. As identified in its title, History plays the more prominent role. The martial arts is more than just an art of fighting, it is an art of tradition, respect, honor and culture. This includes both the philosophy and the art through weaponry, through costumes, through uniforms and through artifacts. As the sacredness of the Japanese Tea Ceremony, the ceremony of bestowing a Black Belt is an honorable event. The history of the martial arts, however, is not limited to the Asian culture, but it spans over numerous countries from the Vikings to the Romans to the Indians, the martial arts has continued to spread across the world. The Martial Arts History Museum is a dedication to those arts and how they were founded and how the spread through the globe. The museum will also include how Hollywood has embraced the arts in every action movie it produces. The museum will enlighten the eyes of our children so that they will understand the impact and life-changing events that the martial arts have created. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:09:08 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Blades versus Armour Plate Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > From: Ollie Batts > I was recently speaking face-to-face with Chris Dobson. If you don't know > who he is, go to: www.masterarmourer.com He explained that the steel > plate > armour worn was not that thick, or heavy. It also had to allow a great > deal > of mobility. In fact, wearers of a full suit of armour should be able to > cartwheel without undue effort. Yep, in fact if you go to my webpage on the photogallery there is a photo of me fighting in full plate on a roof top. After we got done fighting we'd jump off the roof. I regularly did diving forward rolls in plate armour (Oh BTW folks armor is what you ride around in and shoot shells from. Armour is what you wear) > Needless to say, it was the design (shape and angulation), the high > polish, > and the soft padding worn beneath the armour itself that allowed the > points > and edges of swords, and even crossbow bolts and longbow arrows, to be > deflected. In the Reformation armour reached an incredibly advanced state. In fact, the more you know about the complex interweaving of offensive/defensive technologies and strategies on the Renaissance battle field the more impressed you will be. Using that technology I will without hesitation go up against any blade system out there. It's that good. M --__--__-- Message: 8 From: RavenSire@aol.com Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 23:45:48 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] pocket sticks To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net thanks ray, i didn't know that! raymond (s.florida) --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest