Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 19:46:21 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #416 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: The Rapid Rotation Baton System (jay de leon) 2. Steel cutting steel (Ollie Batts) 3. Re:"Kali Means to Scrape" Screening in California (Verzejd@aol.com) 4. Re: The Rapid Rotation Baton System (Ray) 5. Flight risks (Ray Terry) 6. Swords cutting through other steel (Marc MacYoung) 7. Re: Flight risks (Steve Ames) 8. Arnis in the Asian Sea Games (publisher@fmadigest.com) 9. Arnis in the Asian Sea Games pt2 (publisher@fmadigest.com) 10. Re: Killer Sewing Machine Attack (bgdebuque) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 23:24:49 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Rapid Rotation Baton System To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I once had a student who worked as an armed courier, and carried, among many other weapons, a rotating side baton. We experimented sparring against this weapon using single and double sticks, and short staff. We found out that, when this weapon was in full rotation, it was almost impossible to block it due to its weight and momentum. Your tactical chance was only if he lost the rotation and the momentum and had to restart the rotation, or if you had a longer weapon, like a short staff, and had the room and the agility to stay out of his range. All in all, a very formidable weapon in the hands of a trained individual. My student incorporated FMA techniques like figure 8, banda y banda (side to side), and of course could utilize it as a regular stick or baston by grabbing either end instead of the side handle. Jay de Leon Ray Terry wrote: Of possible interest... http://www.rrbsystems.com/Products/Getting%20to%20know%20the%20RRB.pdf -- Ray Terrry california.eskrima@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 12:59:56 +0000 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Steel cutting steel Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Of course it's possible for steel to pierce, or even cut through, other metal. That's why we use chisels to cut nuts from bolts when the corners are rounded (especially in the absence of a torch). It's also obviously possible to drive most hunting knives through the bonnet (hood) of a car. Don't forget, however, that in those circumstances the object being pierced, or cut, is pretty much fixed. Now try piercing or cutting through something when the object is allowed to move as it is hit. Try hanging a metal bucket from a tree, for example, and you'll certainly be able to dent it, but not so likely to pierce it, or cut it at all. Remember also that a bucket is not hardened and tempered, or highly polished either. No doubt a mathematician, or someone knowledgeable in physics, could tell us at what speed a crossbow bolt would need to be travelling to be able to penetrate the bucket before it was able to move or twist ever so slightly. Ollie --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Verzejd@aol.com Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 13:02:06 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re:"Kali Means to Scrape" Screening in California Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Will the documentary be available for purchase at a later date? Where I can I purchase a copy? I will not be able to attend the screening in California. Salamat, FMA Fan in Alaska Eric V. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Rapid Rotation Baton System To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 10:00:47 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I once had a student who worked as an armed courier, and carried, among many other weapons, a rotating side baton. We experimented sparring against this weapon using single and double sticks, and short staff. We found out that, when this weapon was in full rotation, it was almost impossible to block it due to its weight and momentum. ... > Somewhat similar experience here, but we found that by using the augmented blocks of Dequerdas we were able to block the RRB. It hurt, but most of the time it worked. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 11:13:26 -0800 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Flight risks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net FLIGHT RISKS? New rules on what air travelers can carry aboard planes will go into effect this month. Is passenger safety being sacrificed for the sake of convenience? Michael Cabanatuan, SF Chronicle Staff Writer Saturday, December 3, 2005 The days of having to surrender eyeglass-repair screwdrivers or manicure scissors at airport security checkpoints across the nation are about to end. Many air travelers welcome the change as a way to speed them through the lines, while others say it will weaken security. On Friday, Kip Hawley, assistant secretary of the Transportation Security Administration, announced that the move will take effect on Dec. 22, just in time for the holiday travel rush. Passengers will no longer be banned from carrying small scissors and tools on board. "We found that a disproportionate amount of our resources go to line-slowing bag searches directed at objects that do not pose a real threat of taking control of an aircraft,'' he said in a speech to the National Press Club. Hawley said security inspectors should devote more of their efforts to more serious threats, such as keeping an eye on the smuggling of explosives onto airplanes. Instead of digging through carry-on bags in search of scissors with blades shorter than 4 inches and tools shorter than 7 inches, inspectors will conduct more thorough pat-down searches that include arms and legs, and more bomb-sniffing-dog teams will be deployed. Under the new rules, box cutters such as those that terrorists used to attack flight crews four years ago will remain prohibited. So will ice picks and knives of any kind, along with crowbars, hammers, saws and cigarette lighters. Most travelers interviewed Friday at San Francisco International Airport -- and at least one flight attendant -- favored the eased restrictions. Many said the list of banned items included things that posed little danger. "It's about time,'' said Ani Chamichian, a San Francisco publishing consultant headed to Maui on a business trip. "It was a stupid rule to begin with. (The Sept. 11, 2001, terrorists) didn't use little scissors and whatever.'' Gary Fabian, a Redwood City patent agent whose mustache scissors have been confiscated at a security checkpoint, said the rules for what's banned and what's allowed on planes never made much sense. "It's hard to see the difference between lots of the things they're banning and the silverware they're handing you in first class,'' he said. Diane Carlson, a Chicago health care consultant who travels to and from San Francisco weekly, knows the security check routine well and makes sure not to carry any of the prohibited paraphernalia. But she's seen many travelers who either don't know such things are banned or forget to remove them from a purse, backpack or pocket. "It definitely slows down the line,'' she said. Allowing small scissors and tools on board doesn't worry her, she said. "You can inflict bodily injury with just about anything." A United flight attendant, who declined to give her name because the airline doesn't like employees speaking to the media, said she's not worried about safety under the new rules even though many of her colleagues see the decision as placing them in greater danger. "The smaller things don't really matter -- things like small scissors,'' she said. "I do believe in (security officials) spending more time searching for explosives.'' Some flight attendants, she said, feel their safety is being neglected now that the doors of cockpits have been reinforced to sharply reduce the chances of criminals forcing their way inside and seizing control of planes. Corey Caldwell, a spokeswoman for the Association of Flight Attendants, told the Associated Press that the union regards the new policy as "a huge step backward'' because it will allow more potential weapons that could be used against defenseless flight attendants. The Airline Pilots Association, which represents 63,000 commercial pilots in the United States and Canada, praised the decision to focus on explosives but said reducing the list of banned items without screening passengers to determine "hostile intent" doesn't improve safety. "Our fellow crew members and passengers should not have to fear that dangerous individuals are traveling in the cabin, with or without weapons," the group's president, Capt. Duane Woerth, said in a statement. "We have consistently and repeatedly urged the federal government to screen for hostile intent, not just dangerous items. Intent, not content, is the key." Dirk Thye, a San Franciscan bound for Las Vegas to watch a boxing match, said that while allowing passengers to carry small scissors and tools may be distressing to some people, he figures that federal security officials have "done some research into the statistics and likelihood of someone using that sort of thing.'' Other travelers didn't share his faith. Allowing scissors and tools on board, they said, seemed to be letting down the guard. "It's probably not such a hot idea,'' said Henry Carey, a Reno machinist heading home after a medical appointment in San Francisco. "I know they lock the (cockpit) doors now, so it's only the crew (flight attendants) and passengers who are in danger, not the pilots. But I'm a passenger.'' Chris Vetor, a Chicago salesman who flies twice a month, said it makes little sense to surrender even a little bit of safety to allow people to carry scissors and tools onto airplanes. "There's really no need for small scissors and tools on board,'' he said. "If someone really wants to take those things, they should check their bags. If they want to carry on their luggage, they should be willing to make that sacrifice.'' SCISSORS can be brought on board if their blades are less than 4 inches long. PLIERS AND WRENCHES are no longer forbidden as long as they are shorter than 7 inches. SCREWDRIVERS less than 7 inches long are permitted. NOT SO FAST … Some items that still will be banned: box cutters, ice picks, knives of any kind, crowbars, hammers, saws - and cigarette lighters. URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/03/MNGHQG2FVM1.DTL ------------------------------------------- Items Passengers Can and Cannot Carry By The Associated Press Friday, December 2, 2005 (12-02) 08:43 PST , (AP) -- The Transportation Security Administration will change the list of items passengers aren't allowed to carry into airplane cabins as of Dec. 22. Following is a partial list of items that will and will not be allowed: Permitted: _Scissors with blades 4 inches long or less (New) _Screwdrivers less than 7 inches long (New) _Tools less than 7 inches long, including wrenches and pliers (New) _Knitting needles _Toy weapons (if not realistic replicas) _Tweezers _Nail clippers _Round-bladed knives and plastic cutlery _Up to four books of safety matches Prohibited: _Box cutters _Knives _Tools with cutting edges _Tools longer than 7 inches _Lighters _Bludgeons _Crowbars _Hammers _Saws _Ice picks _Throwing stars _Bows and arrows _Guns ___ Source: Transportation Security Administration: www.tsa.gov --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 11:42:03 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Swords cutting through other steel Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > From: bgdebuque > 1. The hardness of the cutting metal vis-a-vis the metal being cut > 2. The sharpness of the cutting edge of the cutting metal > 3. The size of the surface area of the initial point of contact (the > smaller > the better) > 4. The angle at which the cutting metal strikes the surface of the metal > to > be cut (90 degrees is the best) > 5. The mass of the cutting metal (the heavier, the better) > 6. The velocity at which the cutting metal will strike the surface of the > metal to be cut (just remember that the formula for kinetic energy is > E=1/2 > MV2) "Base" also needs to be included in this list. This can come about in many ways, including the weight of the item being cut, if it is moving or stationary, it sitting on a surface or if you are cutting down into the surface. For example an empty can hanging on a string is going to react differently than a filled one. Also whether or not either is sitting on a surface and the density of that surface. In short, it really matters where the force goes I was in Poland a few years ago and I had an officer tell me that his vest could stop a knife. I told him not to bet his life on it. He argued that at the demo the salesman had shown how a knife wouldn't penetrate the vest by stabbing it while it was on a table. I told him that it was the table, not the vest that stopped the thrust and that the results would be different if the vest was against a soft surface. He insisted differently and challenged me to put my money where my mouth was. Laying the vest on the beach's sand, I easily drove my small Explorer Stubby through the vest. This is the kind of stuff you need to also think about when someone is wearing a leather jacket or Karnhart gear in cold weather -- especially when factor in is he moving towards you, away from you or stationary when you strike. M --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 15:05:48 -0500 From: Steve Ames To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Flight risks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 11:13:26AM -0800, Ray Terry wrote: > FLIGHT RISKS? > > New rules on what air travelers can carry aboard planes will go into > effect this month. Is passenger safety being sacrificed for the sake > of convenience? No. This actually increases safety. The only thing being sacrificed is the illusion of safety. The innocent days when someone with a box cutter can hijack a plane are over. Wasting effort to stop small weapons that can, at best, hurt/kill one person is bad. That effort should be focused on better preventing large scale devices. You only have so many resources. Focus them where they count the most. I did it, and I bet you did also. As soon as the restrtive rules went into place the first thing I started doing when I got on the plane was inventorying what could be made into a weapon, preferably a cutting weapon. There was always lots of opportunity. The fact that they didn't let me carry a nail file on board just seemed stupid when viewed from that angle. -steve --__--__-- Message: 8 From: To: Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 13:35:15 -0800 Organization: FMAdigest Subject: [Eskrima] Arnis in the Asian Sea Games Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net article from Philippine Star: RP arnis bets show form in anyo The Philippine Star 12/04/2005 The fancied arnis team snared two gold medals but found a surprisingly tough opposition in Team Vietnam which scored upset wins over top Filipino bets in the 23rd Southeast Asian Games at the Emilio Aguinaldo College Gym yesterday. The trio of Peter Kelvin Celis, Glen Llamador and Nathan Ben Rodriguez scored 98.2 points to top the men's team anyo event followed by Vietnam (97.3) and Cambodia (80.7). The women's team of Rochelle Quirol, Aireen Parong and Catherine Ballenas also struck gold in the women's side with 98.1 points, while Vietnam, the only other participant in the event, was second with 97.5. Head coach Rufino Montalbo said he did not expect Vietnam to improve in such a short time and beat the Philippines at their own game. The Philippine squad defeated Vietnam last August in the first RP-Vietnam dual meet last August. "This is the same squad we beat but it looks like they also had a very intensive training because they have improved a lot," said Montalbo. Montalbo said he understands the predicament they are in but will still try their best to meet their goal. The Filipino bets in the individual anyo, however, were not as fortunate as they suffered heartbreaking losses against their competitors. Regie Sanchez and Mylen Garson settled for silvers with 95.6 and 93.3, respectively, against Vietnam's Nguyen Quang Tung (96.4) and Nguyen Thi My (97.1). Sanchez, a six-time kali arnis world champion, was almost inconsolable after the loss, even planning to file a protest against the judges' decision, saying that Tung, who is competing for the first time internationally, should have been penalized for presenting almost identical routines during the two sets of performance. "Even if they review the tape, they will see that the first and second routines are almost identical. Under the rules, that has a corresponding penalty," Sanchez said. Montalbo, however, prevented any escalation of the situation as he conceded that Tung's performance was better than Sanchez. Under tournament rules, only coaches can protest the decision of judges. On the other hand, Garson had better score than her Vietnamese rival but had a violation, stepping out of the line. - Don Gil Carreon --__--__-- Message: 9 From: To: Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 14:19:41 -0800 Organization: FMAdigest Subject: [Eskrima] Arnis in the Asian Sea Games pt2 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Viets' arnis success due to Pinoy trainer The Philippine Star 12/04/2005 Vietnam's success in arnis may, in part, be due to a Filipino. The Vietnamese team has a Filipino, Roel Gatmundon, in its coaching staff as part of Arnis Philippines effort to promote the native Filipino martial arts to its Southeast Asian neighbors. Gatmundon, a native of Tagkawayan, Quezon, revealed that he was able to land the odd job after being picked by the arnis NSA to assist in the tra ining of the Vietnamese squad upon the request of the Vietnam Olympic Committee for Filipino expertise. The two-time kali arnis world champion said his job is a win-win situation for the Philippines but admits to being torn between seeing his countrymen being defeated by people he trained and the promotion of the native Filipino sport. "Maybe we are losing to them but they are deriving their knowledge from a Filipino," Gatmundon said. Gatmundon spent nine months in Vietnam training their arnis team in the rigors of the sport. He attributed the Vietnamese team's improvement on the discipline and commitment of the players. Gatmundon also said that his participation in the training of the Vietnamese squad belies accusations that Filipinos are not being fair in the staging of the Games. - Don Gil Carreon --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 23:02:57 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Killer Sewing Machine Attack Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The one I saw happened at about 8 PM in a dimly-lit street so I was not able to clearly see the stitch pattern... =[:->] Anyway, for purposes of reference to any FMA out there who anticipates encountering the same situation in the not so distant future, here is more or less what happened (back in PI): Somebody had too much Philippine pale pilsen at the corner sari-sari store. He goes to the middle of the street and establishes some kind of a "personal checkpoint". Anyone who passes by whose face looks unpleasant to him he chases away with the broken beer bottle. This chasing business went on for about 10 minutes without any casualty. Apparently, Mr. Broken Beer Bottle is just too drunk to be able to catch anyone. Unfortunately for him, one of the wannabe toughies in the area happens to be passing by armed with a kitchen knife. Seeing a rare opportunity to enhance his reputation, Mr. Kitchen Knife walked straight to the "personal checkpoint" of Mr. Broken Beer Bottle, his kitchen knife in a reverse grip hidden behind his right hip. Mr. Broken Beer Bottle immediately draws first blood and stabs Mr. Kitchen Knife on the left side of his abdomen. Mr. Kitchen Knife immediately grabs Mr. Broken Beer Bottle in a bear hug and starts "stitching" his back with the kitchen knife. In about 3 seconds, Mr. Kitchen Knife managed to make about 9-10 "icepick" stabs. Sensing that the pounding he is receiving on his back are not ordinary hammerfists, Mr. Broken Beer Bottle pushes away Mr. Kitchen Knife with all his might and runs. Mr. Kitchen Knife also runs in the opposite direction. >From the initial thrust of Mr. Broken Beer Bottle, the entire fracas merely lasted about 6-8 seconds. Luckily both of them survived - primarily because the kitchen knife only has a 4-inch worn-out blade. Had it been a 2 inches longer, I'm sure there would be a record out there in the local Medico-Legal's office as to what kind of stitching was made... =[:->] Message: 2 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 11:12:46 +0000 From: Pat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] The Killer Sewing Machine Attack Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net are we talking single or double stitch? ; ) On 12/1/05, Argyll - wrote: > > OK, you've piqued my interest. Lets here some strategies for responding > to > the "killer sewing machine." > > Best regards, > > Argyll > -- > Pat > www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest