Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 03:02:00 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #423 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Magellan bites the big one (jay de leon) 2. Re: Magellan bites the big one (Ray) 3. Magellan Story!! (Jorge Penafiel) 4. Re: Magellan Story!! (Ray) 5. Buck/Strider Folder Review (Buz Grover) 6. Re: Magellan Story!! (jay de leon) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 14:40:53 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Magellan bites the big one To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Anybody that took up Philippine history in grade school and high school understand that Magellan made a few tactical errors and got gang-banged in the shores of Mactan. This event does not prove anybody's or anything's supremacy no more than Custer's last stand proved anything, other than Custer's recklessness. The only relevant combat conclusion is what Animal articulated in his last paragraphy. Jay de Leon Marc MacYoung wrote: pass. So why couldn't such a large number overwhelm even 60 men? These are the things you need to think about before you trot out Magellan as proof of your point. So what does all this teach us? Well one thing: Skill with a blade is one thing, but the technology/equipment and tactics is equally, if not more, important on the battlefield. As such, might we also not scale that idea down to our personal fighting style? You betcha. M _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Magellan bites the big one To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 13:53:49 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > And yes, he was battling out of range of the cannons. (stupid move that, but > remember Magellan was a captain/pilot not a professional soldier). I have very little to disagree with in Marc's message here, but on this point... As I recall Magellan actually had more experience as a soldier than he did as a sea going captain. ... > Most accounts just mention that he was killed in the battle. But, there is > an account of Magellan's death was from Antonio Pigafetta who actually saw > Magellan go down. Here are a few of the highlights from his version of the > story... Just to add one point here. Pigafetta wrote things that we, including me, frequently quote. Further examination shows that some of what he wrote were stories that the 'natives' made up to see how much he would believe. Apparently in one example the locals told him of a tribe of men whose ears were so large that on a cool evening they would wrap their ears around their entire body so as to stay warm at night. If I recall correctly, Pigafetta reported seeing this for himself...??? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Jorge Penafiel" To: Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 20:46:49 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Magellan Story!! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings from snow buried cincinnati !!!Magellan and the Battle of Mactan,,is like Asian Flu that keeps on coming back and bugging us up. Anyway, since we are in this thread for now, allow me to shade a bit of my thinking and also kind of put some humor to the infamous battle. So, here goes: 1. I think Pigafetta, the chronicler had fudged his battle story and count of Mactan warriors that fought their troop that eventful day to impressed the King of Spain instead of exactly telling Magellan's big snapu. I too would tell big stories and avoid the King 's wrath and the "press" that time,, that's why the spaniards keep on comming back until they finally had control of some islands but not all of the philippines. 2. I have been to the island of Mactan which is today measured at ~ 24 square miles. It is so small that no way 1500 up 3000 guesstimate of warriors plus their wives, other women, old people and children could be living in the island in year 1521. It would have been a big town then. Unless the guys were also busy doing something else aside from practicing their warrior stuff. Today, there is the MAgellan landmark exacted where the battle took place. It would have been crouded that day on this mactan beach. 3. I'm sure wise Magellan before going to Mactan had received scouting reports about Lapu-lapu. It could be that he got misinformed too!! Thus the reason why he went ashore with only 48 men. Then again from where they landed he should already seen the thousand men lining up from afar and Pigafetta was busy counting them.. Foolish or not , yet he went nuts or maybe he had jet lag from traveling around the world. 4. Just think only five guys surrounding and hacking someone with big blades or whatever weapon. It would be difficult without hitting each other as Pigifetta reported he saw numerous natives doing so to their fearless leader. Besides, only eigth men were reported dead. Jeez,,, others must have run and swam so fast with armors or not and just left Magellan behind. At the time of slaughter Magellan was seen to have his sword half drawn. Man,,what was he thinking - sun bathing on the beach or going to battle.. Oh well lots more,,, it is history but I don't buy what Pigafetta had reported...That's why my wish gift for x-mass is a digital camera, so my stories would be believable if told!! Jorge Penafiel --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Magellan Story!! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 18:07:10 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Besides, only eigth men were reported dead. Jeez,,, others must have run and > swam so fast with armors or not and just left Magellan behind. At the time of > slaughter Magellan was seen to have his sword half drawn. Man,,what was he > thinking - sun bathing on the beach or going to battle.. Working from memory here, didn't Mag-man supposedly have a step-son or son or some relation that was in trouble so he stayed back to try and help him out? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 23:17:34 -0500 From: Buz Grover To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Buck/Strider Folder Review Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Recently picked up on a Buck/Strider model 889 folder I figured I'd rattle on about. Received the blade fully ready to dislike it; first fixed blade I ever bought was a Buck General, a big, shiny, stamped POS complete with "blood grooves," an exaggerated clip point, amongst other useless features. I cringe whenever I dig that knife out of the bottom drawer much the same way I cringe whenever Black Sabbath comes on the radio: there was actually a time when I thought that crap was cool? Combined with a bunch of other goofy Buck junk I handled over the years and I was well prepared to consider this eBay purchase cash thrown down the rathole. Well hey, it wasn't, though it took me a day or so to be sure. The folder's action was stiff coming out of the box and its odd handle design had me initially furrowing my brow. A day's worth of play loosened the action, though, and the more I handled the blade the clearer it became that the handle design had to do with raw utility rather than designer affectation. There are several features I really like. First, there is a forefinger cutout both at the base of the blade and the fore end of the handle. This allows you to either choke up the handle for fine control or keep your hand further away from the business end of the knife and out of harms way. The net effect is that you end up with a 3 inch blade--legal for carry most places-- with 4 inches or more of reach. Pretty interesting feature I plan to play with. The handle works well in reverse grip both in the choked up position or the more standard one and in just about any grip a nice little nub at the handle's base sticks out enough to enable a good hammerfist strike with it. Both along its angled butt and where the handle meets the blade have had some significant texture machined in, a feature I like as it makes for a sure grip and gives your hand tactile clues about the knife's precise orientation; I really like it when a knife registers nicely in my hand. Indeed, in reverse grip the thumb can lay nicely along the butt, while in a modified fencers grip that same butt sinks into the palm, allowing for a very authoritative thrust. The blade has thumbstuds on both sides that allow a stud opening with either hand and, when open, the studs rest out of the way against the handle. It also has an oval cut in it that facilitates opening the blade by pinching it and throwing the handle into the palm, my preferred way to open a folder. Combined with the well textured handle, the blade would certainly pass the "can you open it wearing a muddy glove while hanging on a rope with your clothes caught in a rappel device" test. I've several complaints about the knife. The enamel on the blade looks like it was applied unevenly, a problem likely more esthetic than functional, though it did catch my eye. The clip is on the butt end of the knife where I like it, however the fact it's attached to a flat slab leaves it pressing against my hand in a way that bugs me. As mentioned, the slab handles are well textured, so much so it feels like you could grate a lemon against 'em. Indeed, digging in the pocket for keys with the knife clipped in the pocket can get downright painful. The blade is pretty deeply hollow ground, which makes for a sharp knife that can slash quickly and deeply, but also makes the edge more susceptible to wear and tear. I usually use my carry folder as a paring/utility knife, but between the hollow grind and the grip texture I'd be afraid that extended use would ding the blade and tear up my hand. Was about to pull the clip off and carry the knife loose in my pocket when I clipped it to the waistband for appendix carry; the knife proved to carry amazingly well in that manner. Normally appendix carry doesn't work for me when I sit or drive, but I forgot the knife was there no matter what I was doing. It really surprised me how well the knife carried IWB at the groin. It does print a little carried that way, probably not enough to catch the girls' eyes at the disco, but it's there. The knife retails for about $80 and you can find 'em on eBay for around $45. This strikes me as a bit steep; suspect a premium is being paid for the Strider name and indeed a similar full blown Strider produced folder goes for around $350 and forget about finding one cheap on eBay. The 889 compares well with the CRKT Ryan model 7 and may have a leg up on it, though the Ryan can be had for about 1/3 less. All in all a blade I'm glad I took a chance on, I'll be interested to see how it stands up over the long haul. Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 21:34:46 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Magellan Story!! To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Magellan had a bastard son, Cristobal Rebolo, who is documented to have been in the landing party of 60, and is counted as one of the 8 European fatalities. It is speculated that he could have been captain of the Victoria (one of the 3 ships) at some point. Magellan was indeed performing some sort of rear-guard action as his men scrambled to the boats when he was killed, but obviously was not able to save his own son. Jay de Leon Ray wrote: > Besides, only eigth men were reported dead. Jeez,,, others must have run and > swam so fast with armors or not and just left Magellan behind. At the time of > slaughter Magellan was seen to have his sword half drawn. Man,,what was he > thinking - sun bathing on the beach or going to battle.. Working from memory here, didn't Mag-man supposedly have a step-son or son or some relation that was in trouble so he stayed back to try and help him out? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2200 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest