Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 03:01:23 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #436 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Tonfa Vs Stick (Pat) 2. Re: Dispersion of impact over larger surface area? (Marc Denny) 3. Re: Tonfa Vs Stick (Arndt Mallepree) 4. Big blades, small blades (Marc MacYoung) 5. GM Ted Buot Recovering from Stroke (Rocky) 6. Re: GM Ted Buot Recovering from Stroke (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 14:05:29 +0000 From: Pat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tonfa Vs Stick Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Peter, i think you've lost the origional question. Arndt, an instructor certified under Guro Inosanto and others, is an extremely good stickwielder. Its the fact that he has to teach the Tonfa to suit the 'cops' is probably the only reason he's using the tonfa in the first place and the reason he asked his questions. On 12/18/05, Peter Gow wrote: > > Arndt, > > Relax man, I was in no way saying that you were disrespectful to anyone > that has taught you -you have misunderstood what Ityped. > > 8. If tonfa are so efficient then why over time(the last 500 years)have > they never been a popular weapon? > ... > Yes the stick is easier to use intially and the tonfa requires a > different skill set as it is a different weapon and not an easy weapon to > learn - the challenge??? > > .... > Also Ardnt what would you prefer to have a stick or the tonfa? As for me > you already know I will take the stick/blade. > > I > > -- > Pat > www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 11:13:00 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Dispersion of impact over larger surface area? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: > From: "Marc MacYoung" > > Marc asked >> Marc >> Where might one find this footage? > > http://www.thearma.org/ > > You have to weave through the footage to find broadsword or bastard > swords. > The other types of weapons that he uses require some unique handling. > > M Thank you. > Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 > From: bgdebuque > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Steel vs. Steel > > Given the same blade material and dimensions, I think the "flat side" > blade > would, theoretically, also be the first one to break (assuming one has > enough strength to hold on to it). Hmmm, dunno. Could we say that the greater contact area allows for dispersion of the force of the impact? Anyone? yip, CD --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Arndt Mallepree" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Tonfa Vs Stick Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:14:31 +0100 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Peter, well this time its you to misunderstand ;-) If it would be my choice I would use a stick aswell. But my question towards the used tonfa techniques are from another point. I am a cop instructor and my pupils and I have no chance to discuss about the tonfa. We just get nothing else! Its all politics ... That is why we are training with that kind of weapon and that is why I am not allowed to teach them different gripps! Have a merry christmas Arndt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Gow" To: Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 11:48 PM Subject: [Eskrima] Tonfa Vs Stick > Arndt, > > Relax man, I was in no way saying that you were disrespectful to anyone > that has taught you -you have misunderstood what I typed. > > Anyway in regards to a tonfa versus a stick. It is okay to train one > against another for training and to vary the experience but you should > remember that > > 1. The stick is much lighter and travel much faster than the tonfa within > striking range. > > 2. When using the tonfa the sideways movement of the wrist in greatly > inhibited. > > 3. The the wrist movement of the stick wielder is full movement. > > 4. The tonfa are heavy and take time to move - extra weight to carry on > the arms. > > 5. Sticks are much lighter than tonfa so achieve maximum speed > v.v.quickly. > > 6. Because of the free wrist movement and shoulder movement, angles can > be changed by the stick person at full power Eg: A strike to the top of > the head can easily become a strike to any part of the body. > > 7. The extra weight of the tonfa slows down the arm movements. > > You may disagree and possibly not even like the next point but it is not > meant to be taken personally or to be an insult. The point is purely > historical. > > 8. If tonfa are so efficient then why over time(the last 500 years) have > they never been a popular weapon? > > 9. The stick is very popular because it is a natural extension of the arm > and allows full movement of the arm joints. > > Yes the stick is easier to use intially and the tonfa requires a > different skill set as it is a different weapon and not an easy weapon to > learn - the challenge??? > > The tonfa is a good training aid the additional weight helps to > strengthen the arms and the tonfa wrist movements strengthen the wrist > in one direction. Therefore your arms can move faster when you do not > have the tonfa and you may develop a stronger wrist when punching like a > western boxer or a Japanese exponent. Tonfa also develop the grip. > > Please do not take all the above the wrong way I am in no way trying to > dissuade anyone from learning anything in the martial arts. As the more > knowledge you know the better you are for it. > > These are only points for your information. You can either use them or > throw them in the bin. > > Its your choice. > > Also Ardnt what would you prefer to have a stick or the tonfa? As for me > you already know I will take the stick/blade. > > I think I have exhausted myself on this topic. > > All the Best and Train Hard. > > Galang, > > Peter Gow > > Australia > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:49:01 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Big blades, small blades Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > So when you pick up a different > weapon you don't try to use it like you would one you are already familiar > with, but instead look into how the pie is divided in that system." > From: "Michael Koblic" > ***Amen to that. But this could take up most of your life :-) Maybe the > Canadian > government will give me a grant to study this. Or could someone endow a > chair at Princeton? Actually it's just a teaching tool to show people all the differences in body movement, style and blade movement. It's often really hard to teach someone something different when they think they know a topic because they know one aspect. They tend to revert to movement styles that they know already. That model helps people break free from that assumption. Not too long ago at a tournament here in Colorado I saw a kid take first place for his age division in Weapons forms by doing a mutant blend of kata and siniwali with two wakashis. It look like no form of kenjitsu that I've ever seen. But I'll bet anyone dollars to doughnuts that the kid really believed he knew how to use that kind of sword... or any other type of blade for that matter. The pie model is to help explain to him why it just ain't so. > "Yes, no, maybe sometimes. My point isn't that Clements system doesn't > work. > It does. What it does do however, is point out the value -- and the > potential for BS -- of marketing. " > > ***I am sorry, I was not attacking Clements' system of which I know very > little. Even if you were I wouldn't mind. I'm not 'follower' of his. In fact, his controversial and absolute stand has attracted a following of people who come awfully close to fanatical. But like so many other things in life the issue is rather complex. His skill with a sword and to a lesser degree his research are pretty demonstrable. Yeah, there are things you can get nitpicky about, but over-all, facing him with a blade would be a ...well...challenge. >I was making the point that video seldom lies and just because > someone says they do something does not mean they actually do it when you > watch them, particularly at 1/16th of the real speed. This is very true. My point however is that it cuts both ways. While video can reveal flaws at the same time it can reveal what people are doing right as well. It is all too common in this biz that critics will look at a tape and dismiss an entire system on a techinicality. Now while it is true that there are a lot of so-called 'experts' out there who reveal their actual lack of skill on tape, that still doesn't mean that they are totally without value. For example the Jerry Peterson's SCARS tape was technique-wise nothing special. In fact they were rather basic. However, two very positive points came up. First, his approach encouraged a degree of commitment to the move not commonly found in most training. A degree of commitment that I must say WILL win an overwhelming majority of fights. It doesn't have to be perfect techniques, coming in hard, fast, unexpectedly and with full force is a proven fighting strategy. And anyone who has seen, or been in a Saturday night punchout in a bar can tell you when it comes to "Git-R-done" this is what determines the winner in about 90% of the fights. Secondly, I was very impressed with his organization and presentation of the information. There were some solid teaching dynamics behind how he was teaching. Do these prove his system was "guaranteed" as he claimed? Of course not. Again it was marketing backed up by some basic, but reliable stuff. On the other hand is the fact that people often will see something on tape (or not see it as the case may be) and not understand the subtlies of what they are seeing. In these circumstances people will dismiss someone because they don't "get it." For example if you watch Steve Plinck's video on Pukulan Pentjak Silat through Paladin Press, it really looks like the people he is working with are "dummying" for him. Here are guys flying through the air, while it appears that Steve is just standing there. Quite frankly, it looks fake. In fact, those were the exact words of the coach of the Belgian National Martial Arts Team, Wim DeMeere to me. Now mind you this is a guy who Bob Orlando said of that he will never be the martial artist that Wim is, but even he wasn't seeing what was going on. Thing is Steve is a "master" of positioning/ location / range /ma-ai or whatever you call it in your system and he has developed an incredibly subtle and powerful power chain. IF you do not know to look for these things in what he is doing, then yes it looks fake. However, if you realize that the trap is set up as Steve steps into position (or as I explained to Wim, "he's dead right there and he doesn't even know it") and you understand power transfer, you understand that it isn't fake. There's a reason why it looks like Steve just twitched and the guy went flying. Spotting that reason, however, means you have to be pretty advanced yourself or have some experience with the concepts. The problem is much of the time people watching video (especially if they are watching it to be critical) dismiss it out of hand. Often because the guy on the tape is incompetent. But just as often, the guy on the tape is competent, but is being dismissed because the viewer doesn't understand what he is seeing. This is why you need to sit down with people who knows that particular field rather well and watch the video. They'll see things, both good and bad, that you won't. M --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Rocky" To: Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 17:25:04 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] GM Ted Buot Recovering from Stroke Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I thought I would let others in the Balintawak community know that Mr. Rich Parsons informed me this morning that GM Ted Buot suffered a Stroke over the weekend, he is still in IC but wants to come home already so we hope this is a good sign. We have been informed by the familly that its best to just let him rest and not to try to visit him ( if you are local) At any rate I hope and pray that my instructor makes a speedy recovery. Please keep him in your thoughts Rocky --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] GM Ted Buot Recovering from Stroke To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 15:35:26 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I thought I would let others in the Balintawak community know that Mr. Rich > Parsons informed me this morning that GM Ted Buot suffered a Stroke over the > weekend, he is still in IC but wants to come home already so we hope this is > a good sign. So very sorry to hear that. My prayers are with him and his family. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest