Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 18:06:20 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 12 #448 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Atty's in the RP ? (jay de leon) 2. Concealed knife question Part Three (Marc Denny) 3. Re: Atty's in the RP ? (Felipe Jocano) 4. RE: Docu-movie honoring war vets at Consulate (barry meadows) 5. Re: Re: Concealed Knife Recommendation - IMHO Don't (Ray) 6. Re: Re: Doce Pares 1932 (ocorpuz@cox.net) 7. Re: Cacoy DP (Billlowery) 8. Re: Docu-movie honoring war vets at Consulate (Pat) 9. Re: Re: Concealed Knife Recommendation (buz_ed_alias@mac.com) 10. Re: Re: Doce Pares 1932 (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:48:45 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Atty's in the RP ? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray: Okay. You asked. Filipinos love titles. Examples of titles used in the Phil. include "Engineer," "Auditor" and of course "Atty." And of course you have to use political titles, such as "Councilor," "Barangay Captain." etc. It would be a breach of etiquette to use "Mr." if the gentleman had one of this prepossessing titles. One of my personal stories involve an employee escorting a guest around the camp and addressing him as what sounded like "Bored." I knew it couldn't be the guy's first name. Later, I learned that the gentleman was Board Member Manuel Aguilar, as in a member of the provincial board, or "Board" for short. If you go the Philippines, Ray, do not be taken aback if some arnisadors call you Sir Ray. No, you have not been inducted into the Knights of the Round Table, but simply, as in yes, sir. So my Modern Arnis seniors are addressed in conversation as Sir Godo (Fajardo), Sir Cristino (Vasquez), etc. I invite the other Filipinos in this forum to share their experiences. Jay de Leon AKA Sir Jay Ray wrote: > ... sounds a bit strong, and, er, biased. As I freely stated I was... > I would say Manong Cacoy has at the very least as much right to the Doce > Pares name (and organization) as Atty. Diony. Here is a question... Lawyers -seem- to be held in much much higher regard in the RP than they are here in the US. Is that an accurate observation? I see frequent mention in RP newsprint that someone is an "Atty", esp when it doesn't seem to be a factor of interest to the topic at hand. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 23:08:39 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Concealed knife question Part Three Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: A hearty woof of respect to the wife who exhibited such clear-headed warrior spirit! Several good posts in response. I thought Animal's post had many good points on more than one level. Should SHE want a knife, I agree that she should select the one that calls to her. The only thing I would add is to have her attack a large cardboard box with a knife to give her some sense of what's involved-- including grip issues-- before she goes to select. Woof, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 02:22:05 -0800 (PST) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Atty's in the RP ? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray: First of all, this reply has nothing to do with the dispute between GM Cacoy and GM Diony. This is an observation with regards to the use of titles over here. It's not just the attorneys that are held in high regard, lawyer jokes notwithstanding, but that anyone who has completed some form of professional education and therefore is entitled to use the corresponding title is often addressed as such, whether in print, in conversations or in public functions. Thus, MDs and PhDs are addressed as Drs or Doc, architects as Architect (at least in official functions), teachers as Sir or Madam, etc. Democracy notwithstanding, there is still a consciousness of rank and status within contemporary Filipino society, with the corresponding privileges and obligations that go with it. Interestingly, sometimes the courtesy of being addressed as Dr. is sometimes extended to the female spouse, but not necessarily the other way around. Thus, the wife of an MD or PhD may sometimes be addressed as Doctora, even if she is not. Not that there is any attempt to mislead, but only that the courtesy and deference shown to the bearer of the title is extended to the wife as well. The relevance to the topic at hand in Philippine newsprint isn't as important as the extent of the courtesy shown to the title-bearer. Bot P.S. But it doesn't extend to those having a master's degree, for example. :-) Why, I'm not sure. Unless people didn't want to sound like bad dialogue from kungfu movies...:-) --- Ray wrote: > > ... sounds a bit strong, and, er, biased. > > As I freely stated I was... > > > I would say Manong Cacoy has at the very least as > much right to the Doce > > Pares name (and organization) as Atty. Diony. > > Here is a question... Lawyers -seem- to be held in > much much higher regard > in the RP than they are here in the US. Is that an > accurate observation? > > I see frequent mention in RP newsprint that someone > is an "Atty", esp when > it doesn't seem to be a factor of interest to the > topic at hand. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > __________________________________ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "barry meadows" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Docu-movie honoring war vets at Consulate Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:51:38 +0000 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Some may find the link below interesting: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200510/kaplan-us-special-forces Barry Meadows >Among the sponsors were the Philippine American Veterans Organization >Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Concealed Knife Recommendation - IMHO Don't To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 07:37:41 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > I don't know what state you live in > > Might be a province or territory rather than state. We're a worldwide > community here. True that... Wee, the original poster, lives in Malaysia. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Doce Pares 1932 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:34:22 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just for my own clarification; what's the issue between GM Diony and GM Cacoy? I never truly understood the situation, I just now know that there are two seperate factions; Doce Pares Multi-style System and Cacoy Doce Pares. Thanks in Advance, Oscar > > From: jay de leon > Date: 2005/12/28 Wed PM 10:49:16 EST > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Doce Pares 1932 > > "Better associated" sounds a bit strong, and, er, biased. I would say Manong Cacoy has at the very least as much right to the Doce Pares name (and organization) as Atty. Diony. From what I understand, Diony is equally well respected in certain quarters in the Philippines. Unfortunately, as we all know, family squabbles happen. > > Just a casual observer, > > Jay de Leon > > > > Ray wrote: > Granted, as an attorney, Diony was able to push Cacoy out of the group of > which he/Diony is now the head. But given that Cacoy is Diony's uncle, his > prior instructor, an original DP member, the only original DP member still > living and/or active, and also given that Cacoy was the "point man" for > Doce Pares (doing their full-contact unpadded fighting when the org was > to be represented) from the 1940s straight on through, I think he should > be allowed to claim and use the name Doce Pares any way he wishes. After > all, who is better associated with the Doce Pares name or the Doce Pares > group than Cacoy? > > But then I'm biased... > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Billlowery" To: Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:09:09 -0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Cacoy DP Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote >Well, I didn't really write it, I simply forwarded it. It came from a >newspaper in the Philippines.< Ffair enough, I was simply commenting on the info presented, not the source as such. >Granted, as an attorney, Diony was able to push Cacoy out of the group of >which he/Diony is now the head. < Hmm, yes, along the lines I had heard as to why Cacoy split from the original multistyle system. > But given that Cacoy is Diony's uncle, his prior instructor, an original > DP member, the only original DP member still living and/or active, and > also given that Cacoy was the "point man" for Doce Pares (doing their > full-contact unpadded fighting when the org was to be represented) from > the 1940s straight on through, I think he should be allowed to claim and > use the name Doce Pares any way he wishes.< The name yes, the history, no. Again, the point I was making was that "The Cacoy Doce pares Federation" isn't 74 years old, not cacoys association with the Doce Pares name. > After all, who is better associated with the Doce Pares name or the Doce > Pares group than Cacoy?< As Jay de Leon points out, there are others. I have met many people who assume (always a mistake that!) that cacoy must have passed on or at least stopped teaching because of his age. >But then I'm biased...< Me too! I'm under GM Dany Guba of the Diony Canete lineage. I have trained with Cacoy, and I have nothing but admiration for the man and his still apparent skills with a stick (and stick and knife - some of his Espada y Daga is still the most effective work I have seen in this area). I just felt it was necessary to clear up the inaccuracy in the report. >Here is a question... Lawyers -seem- to be held in much much higher regard >in the RP than they are here in the US. Is that an accurate observation?< Yes. One of my students (Luci - yes a female lawyer) worked in the PI for a while. She frequently was asked to hurry along and get Attny Evans, as the people she was dealing with were highly impressed to be dealing with a Western lawyer, and obviously Attny Evans must be a man...! And politicians, can you believe? GM Guba has commented on his surprise as to the attitude we Brits have towards politicians - "In the PI once you become a policitician you get a great deal of respect rom people. And yet, not here!" Jay de Leon wrote >Unfortunately, as we all know, family squabbles happen.< Don't they just! Re: Cacoy recently challenging Diony to a match! Bill --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:23:07 +0000 From: Pat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Docu-movie honoring war vets at Consulate Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net If this is the film Guro Inosanto shows then there is a lot hidden in the scenes where someone with undertsanding could let you see more. The 'Judo' demonstration of course being Dumog. Guro I stops the film at various points to show his uncles who were instrumental in the training. Anyone confirm? Also, i think it was this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0840328974/ref=cm_lm_fullview_prod_6/104-051 8068-6079141?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155 that he showed us. In it there is a picture of a group of men credited as being part of a gun club. However, Guro pointed out that all these guys had asparagus knives but the editor just saw the one gun. On 12/29/05, Ray Terry wrote: > Docu-movie honoring war vets at Consulate > > NEW YORK --- The Philippine Consulate General in New York, and several > Filipino veterans groups jointly presented a movie documentary, "An > Untold Triumph," about the never-been-told story of 7,000 men of the > 1st and 2nd Filipino Infantry Regiments of the US Army who fought in > World War II last Sunday, December 11. -- Pat www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 9 From: buz_ed_alias@mac.com Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:31:26 -0500 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Re: Concealed Knife Recommendation Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Wee asks: > What I am looking for is something light and easy to conceal. I am > thinking of a very sharp, menacing fixed blade which can be > fastened to > her waist horizontally and concealed. The knife should be easy to to > draw in reverse grip, blade forward fashion. (If you have a better > knife > carrying and drawing suggestion, please let me know). Sounds like you want something an assailant can quickly identify as a threat to avoid. Think a double edged dagger does that as well as anything; a good cheap one that offers a variety of carry options are the Cold Steel Peace Keepers: http://www.coldsteel.com/fixed-blades-peace-keepers.html You can find 'em pretty cheap on eBay. Needless to say with a double edge your wife will have to be careful about not slicing herself or her coat when she draws and this isn't a knife for heavy use over time, but it's a good, inexpensive compromise for just in case carry. If you're looking for something beefier but don't want to pay custom prices I think Etrek offers some decent knives. Their handles are small for my tastes, but may work well for a woman, and I don't like their sheaths, but the two I have had stood up to some beating around. You can see 'em all at: http://www.ennis-entrekusa.com/ Again, eBay usually offers better prices and if you Google a specific model you can sometimes find a good price. Kudos to your wife for fending off her attackers! Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:44:48 -0800 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Doce Pares 1932 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Just for my own clarification; what's the issue between GM Diony and >GM Cacoy? I never truly understood the situation, I just now know that there >are two seperate factions; Doce Pares Multi-style System and Cacoy Doce Pares. Trying to be even handed here... Diony's father Eulogio, one of Cacoy's brothers, held the title of President of the Doce Pares group from inception to his death in June 1988. Cacoy and Momoy were the two Canete brothers best known for their Eskrima. Cacoy was the only Canete that actually did any significant number of full-contact stick fights, always representing Doce Pares against other Eskrima groups. When Eulogio (Ylong) passed away there was a need to elect/appoint a new president. Apparently Cacoy did not really want the job at that time, so Diony stepped up and assumed the title. After time there was a split between how Diony, the new President of the Doce Pares group, wanted to do things and the way Cacoy, essentially the Chairman Emeritus of the group, wanted to do things. $$ was no doubt mixed in here also. -------------------------------------------------------- Biased point follows: Consider that by this time, Diony (who was now 50) had Eskrima and his law practice. Cacoy (who was now 70) had Doce Pares Eskrima and not much else. Life-long work as an Eskrima fighter and teacher doesn't come with much of a retirement pension... ------------------------------------------------------- Diony didn't want Cacoy to usurp his position and title. Cacoy didn't want his nephew and a former student telling him what to do and how Doce Pares should be run. Thus, conflict... Sidebar: Why am I biased? I have been to Cacoy's place of residence here in San Jose many times, worked out with him 1-on-1 in his backyard many times and I am ranked by him. I am sure that Diony is truely an excellent teacher. And I appreciate that he showed great respect to my friend and instructor Mike Inay by saying in writing several years ago that Suro was the best Eskrimador in the US. Ray Terrry california.eskrima@gmail.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest