Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 17:46:30 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #13 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. The color of a belt (Gerry Chenevert) 2. Re: white belt beats black belt (Ray) (Ruel Apostol) 3. mastering all fields in martial arts (Marc MacYoung) 4. Re: mastering all fields in martial arts (Andrew Evans) 5. Re: white belt beats black belt (Ray) (Joe Talmadge) 6. White belt beating black belt (Ed Lam) 7. Belts (Ollie Batts) 8. Crafty's comments (Kes41355@aol.com) 9. Re: mastering all fields in martial arts (ASC) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Gerry Chenevert" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 02:25:33 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] The color of a belt Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This discussion proves that a belt is really for knowing your place within your system/style/school.  When you step out of your training hall and enter the great wide world, your skill and will determine your rank in a violent encounter. Now I'm not knocking the ranking systems, it's just that there's no way to standardize them across the span of the martial arts.  Some styles are just better than others, and produce better rounded and more skilled fighters.  Then there's the individual's physical attributes and his will.  In all, blackbelts from  two different schools are like apples and oranges.  Thinking you're a badass blackbelt can be a deadly assumption. As an illustration of how a belt rank can be dangerous I'll tell you of Martin, a German exchange student in my senior class many years ago.  He was a 2nd or 3rd degree blackbelt and he bragged to us all that he had taken 50 or 60 1st place trophies in fights back home.  To listen to him, he was the epitome of a lean mean fighting machine.  He loved to wow the girls by flashing his spinning axe kick.  One day one of the local street thugs decided to call him out and a fight ensued.  Martin tried the spinning axe kick, the thug stepped in past it and caught Martin's thigh on the shoulder, swept him down, then dropped on top of him and punched him into a semi unconscious state.  In all it took 5 seconds, and Martin never scored a blow.  That's why I prefer to be low key about it and am very careful who I tell that I study.  I don't need to be "tested" by all the guys with something to prove. Crafty made a good point, about boxing having it's own politics that mess things up.  I tend to think that all styles have some sort of politics, in one way or another.  That's why it's great to take off your belt, toss it in the corner, step to the line, and may the best man win.  Just remain friends at the end of the day..... --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:03:18 -0800 (PST) From: Ruel Apostol Subject: Re: [Eskrima] white belt beats black belt (Ray) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I read somewhere that before formally studying BJJ or Judo, BJ Penn was already rolling with his older brothers at home who were already training in such. So before he actually joined any school, he was already familiar and adept with everything. Similar to... for example... if a son of a Karate Blackbelt who has already been informally trained would finally go into a Dojoand start as a whitebelt, expect him to be already kicking ass. But, I still admire BJ Penn's talent. He really is a prodigy (reminds me of the band). Willy Lee wrote: "Leo Daher" writes: > According to his biography, BJ Penn started training with Ralph Gracie in > 1997, the year that tournament was held. As the video says, he had a > white belt in BJJ at the time, not a black belt, which he got almost > three years later from Andre Pederneiras. BJ Penn is a prodigy. There is nothing more to say than that. Isn't 3 years pretty much unheard of to get a black belt in BJJ? Not unusual in judo, though, which only goes to show that belt colors are apples and oranges. If you watch the matches you'll see that he plays very intelligently -- avoiding the throw attempts, countering, shooting, anything to get the game onto the ground where he obviously (having done BJJ) feels most comfortable. What was really surprising to me was that he actually managed to throw his opponent in the last match (kind of a counter-throw). Although, if these were shown chronologically, you might reasonably assume that his opponents by this time were rattled and more than half beat before their matches started. =wl -- ...this is an awesome sight. The entire rebel resistance buried under six million hardbound copies of "The Naked Lunch." - The Firesign Theater _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima www.unitedprimebuilders.com learn a filipino martial art and be proud of it: www.academialsa.littlebadboy.net --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:57:18 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] mastering all fields in martial arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Steve Ames > "Today, the school is training 200 students, each paying $200 a month." > Ummm... just out of curiosity is $200 typical? I don't pay anywhere close > to > that and am wondering if I just have it good? Actually it isn't exactly uncommon. We have a commecial franchised school just down the road from us that charges that. More importantly for the "karate moms," however, is that they will give 'Little Johnny' his black belt inside a year. Guaranteed... Wonders of wonders, they only engage in interschool tournaments. Contracts in commercial martial arts schools can reach near that, especially if you only take the shorter, three to six month versions M --__--__-- Message: 4 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] mastering all fields in martial arts From: "Andrew Evans" Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 11:27:47 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I was at one of Hock Hochheim's 4-day Pacific Archipelago camps a couple of years back where I met Julius Melegrito. He was the U.S. secretary general for Kombatan back then. I was lucky to have him as my training partner at that camp. The other Arnis practitioners got a good chuckle as they saw the rivalry between a Modern Arnis and Kombatan practitioner. It was more of a friendly rivalry. (We were only asked to tone it down a couple of times.) While we both snuck in a nasty technique here and now, he got a few more jabs in during the stick training. Julius's ability to pick up on new techniques was amazing. Equally impressive was how he changed some of the Tapi-Tapi patterns being taught. Having him as a partner really accelerated the learning curve. Thank goodness Dean Goldade taught a Kajukenbo portion as that’s an area where I have a strong advantage. Unlike many people who tune out when they are out of their comfort zones, Julius was open-minded enough to learn more techniques. Initially, I was put off by his wild sense of humor but now realize that in order to be successful in the martial arts you have to be a little (okay a lot!) crazy... As for martial arts tuition... $200 is a lot! Many of the instructors I respect charge $50-100 per month. Unless you are taking one of my college-level courses, my classes are less than $40 per month. But then again, my motivation in the arts is not financial. Yet, I congratulate Julius as his local market is able to bear his $200 a month asking price. I also congratulate him for all the other achievements! Respectfully, Andrew Evans Hokkien Martial Arts www.TopekaKarate.com
From: "Steve Ames"
To:
Subject: Re: [Eskrima] mastering all fields in martial arts
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:10:07 -0500
Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net

"Today, the school is training 200 students, each paying $200 a month."
Ummm... just out of curiosity is $200 typical? I don't pay anywhere close to
that and am wondering if I just have it good. _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:30:46 -0800 (PST) From: Joe Talmadge Subject: Re: [Eskrima] white belt beats black belt (Ray) To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ya, BJ was definitely a phenom. Anyone reading into this that an average BJJ white belt can compete, in Judo, against Judo blackbelts, is insane. Here's my experience with BJ. I was at Ralph's when BJ was a white belt there. I came back after some months after an injury and laziness, and BJ had showed up sometime while I was gone. He weighed less than me and didn't feel as strong, I weighed about 155 at the time. He was already much better than me despite not being there long, still a white belt but giving lower-level blue belts some trouble. By a couple months after that, I heard the upper-level bluebelts complaining that they couldn't pass his guard anymore. It was almost depressing seeing how fast the guy's skills got better, while I trudged along getting tapped left and right. Joe --- Ruel Apostol wrote: > I read somewhere that before formally studying BJJ or Judo, BJ Penn was > already rolling with his older brothers at home who were already training in > such. So before he actually joined any school, he was already familiar and > adept with everything. > > Similar to... for example... if a son of a Karate Blackbelt who has already > been informally trained would finally go into a Dojoand start as a whitebelt, > expect him to be already kicking ass. > > But, I still admire BJ Penn's talent. He really is a prodigy (reminds me > of the band). > > Willy Lee wrote: > "Leo Daher" writes: > > > According to his biography, BJ Penn started training with Ralph Gracie in > > 1997, the year that tournament was held. As the video says, he had a > > white belt in BJJ at the time, not a black belt, which he got almost > > three years later from Andre Pederneiras. > > BJ Penn is a prodigy. There is nothing more to say than that. Isn't > 3 years pretty much unheard of to get a black belt in BJJ? Not > unusual in judo, though, which only goes to show that belt colors are > apples and oranges. > > If you watch the matches you'll see that he plays very intelligently > -- avoiding the throw attempts, countering, shooting, anything to get > the game onto the ground where he obviously (having done BJJ) feels > most comfortable. > > What was really surprising to me was that he actually managed to throw > his opponent in the last match (kind of a counter-throw). Although, > if these were shown chronologically, you might reasonably assume that > his opponents by this time were rattled and more than half beat before > their matches started. > > =wl > > -- > ...this is an awesome sight. The entire rebel resistance buried under > six million hardbound copies of "The Naked Lunch." - The Firesign > Theater > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > > > > > www.unitedprimebuilders.com > learn a filipino martial art and be proud of it: > www.academialsa.littlebadboy.net > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Photos > Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, > whatever. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:34:50 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Lam To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] White belt beating black belt Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <> Exactly. He is a talented grappler. Period. We have had an internationally ranked wrestler joined our Judo club. He was given a brown belt to wear immediately, and fought in tournaments in the brown/black belt division. He did not win first place, but won his share of matches. No surprise there. BTW, it is unusual for someone to get a black belt in Judo, here in Canada, in 3 years. Most people take 5 or 6 years. Ed --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 19:51:20 +0000 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Belts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sorry to nitpick, but there are a plethora of belts in boxing. It seems like every card has a championship belt at stake, even if its of South Bumf*ck, Nowhere :-) As for crap, does the name Don King mean ring a bell? just being a smart*ss, Crafty Dog You know the kind of belts I was talking about, although yes I too think that having 16 World Heavyweight Champions (or whatever the number currently sits at) is a total farce. The current so-called 'Heavyweight Champions', in particular, could do worse than sit and watch some of the old-timers from a generation or two back. Take a look and compare any of the Ali -v- Frasier, or Foreman, etc., and tell me who from nowadays could have lived with them? Re: Don King, money-wise he still lives and has lived better than most of us, but I wouldn't change places with him for all the money in the world. Pugil --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 19:45:25 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Crafty's comments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Marc, You're not being a smart*ss, just honest. I'm an ex-boxer, and a former huge boxing fan...until it started looking way too much like the WWE. The days of the greats like Sugar Ray Robinson are gone, replaced by a sport that has more world champions than you can shake a stick at. I just stick to watching the amateurs these days, much more exciting. Kim Satterfield In a message dated 1/13/2006 6:26:26 AM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Woof All: Pugil wrote: "That's why I like Boxing... no belts, no crap, just winners and losers!" Sorry to nitpick, but there are a plethora of belts in boxing. It seems like every card has a championship belt at stake, even if its of South Bumf*ck, Nowhere :-) As for crap, does the name Don King mean ring a bell? just being a smart*ss, Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 12:33:42 +1100 From: ASC To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] mastering all fields in martial arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net our fees are $80 for one art $120 for 2arts $150 for all... (tae kwon do, hapkido, bjj, weaponry) Steve Ames wrote: >"Today, the school is training 200 students, each paying $200 a month." >Ummm... just out of curiosity is $200 typical? I don't pay anywhere close to >that and am wondering if I just have it good? > >Ray wrote: > > >>YEARNING to be home... but can't just yet >>Manila Standard Today - Philippines >> >>... After mastering all fields in martial arts, he decided to teach >>Tae Kwon Do, Korean Tang Soo Do, Combat Hapkido, Karate, and >>Philippine Martial Arts that ... >> >>http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=goodLife02_jan13_2006 >>_______________________________________________ >>Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members >>Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >>Standard disclaimers apply >>http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest