Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 03:01:15 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #27 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: most likely attack? (Daniel Arola) 2. Marc McFann UK Tour - March (iPat) 3. re: most likely attack? (Marc MacYoung) 4. Year of the Dog (Ray) 5. Wekaf quals on Sunday (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:45:40 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] most likely attack? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The most likely attack with knives that I have seen throughout the world is almost no different than the classic "sucker-punch". The attacks come out as a surprise, because once one is determined to slice you, it will be in the moment when one least expects it to take place. As for "Mexicans"(or any other of Hispanic origin) with knives, you never see them just pull out a blade right there in front of you to scare you. If they want to cut you, they're gonna sneak it on you. Daniel Arola James Wilson wrote: I live in what's left of New Orleans, and was having a discussion with a friend who is a LEO. He and another LEO I know have said that all of the Hispanic migrant worker/day laborers that they've encountere always have a knife on them. They didn't say what kind of knife, but I'm assuming a folder or work knife. I'm assuming most of these knives are being used as "work tools" for the most part and as weapons secondarily. This a new community to the New Orleans area, and there's quite a culture clash going on right now. Since these are generally work knives I'm guessing that most attacks would be slash oriented and not thrust oriented. My reasoning is if you use a knife to cut something (using it as a tool), you generally think of using it in the edge modality and not thrusting modality, because that's how you use it most of the time. Now I know there is a bit of a knife culture in the Hispanic world, but I don't think these guys actually practice or train in any way. My friend wanted to know if anyone has had any experience dealing with this community and what kind of attacks are "typical" and what he could expect in encounters. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks, James -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? With a free 1 GB, there's more in store with Yahoo! Mail. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:49:18 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Marc McFann UK Tour - March Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net 18/19th London *www.karasackali.co.uk* 20th Newmarket 21st Shildon,County Durham http://shildonmartialarts.co.uk/ 22nd Ayr 23rd Aberdeen www.amag.org.uk 25/26th Northampton UFA Instructors Camp -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk For the discovery of truth there is no path… --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:27:31 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] re: most likely attack? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net James asked > I live in what's left of New Orleans, and was having a discussion with a > friend who is a LEO. He and another LEO I know have said that all of the > Hispanic migrant worker/day laborers that they've encountere always have a > knife on them. They didn't say what kind of knife, but I'm assuming a > folder or work knife. Usually work knives, but when they decide it's time to rock and roll, they use what is handy. When they get enough money, they'll upgrade to guns. I'm assuming most of these knives are being used as > "work tools" for the most part and as weapons secondarily. This a new > community to the New Orleans area, and there's quite a culture clash going > on right now. Actually from what I have heard from my friends in the South, it isn't just in N.O. The blacks and white trash are having a hard time because while the had come to a form of social balance, the Mexican emigrees are looking at them and saying "why should we follow your unwritten rules?" Both of the established groups are having to deal with some hungry new players in town. Also, and this is critical for your LEO friend to know, Hispanics are used to an entirely different form of corruption from their law enforcement officers. One that makes them a whole LOT less hesitant to go after an official. This is why it is ALWAYS smart to work with back up. Furthermore the hispanics are coming in with two things that are really causing major problems. First, a much hungrier work ethic. They'll do jobs -- and for less money -- that many Americans, regardless of race, feel are below them. It's a truly appalling thing to hear someone turn down a job "because that's Mexican work." Second, and this isn't just Mexican, but also Central and South American, they tend to work together in their criminal activities. This is especially important for your LEO friends to know. You really, really have to look, not at individual activity, but always look at something being part of a ring or a cartel. This isn't small time or necessarily gang stuff, it is much bigger. Things like stealing en bulk from grocery chains and then passing the stuff onto 'local' vendors at a greatly reduced price. This isn't just a fly by night thing either, it is a constant hemorrhaging of products and redistribution on a major scale. With lots and lots of people involved in the stealing and redistribution chain. It isn't as sexy or attention getting as drug running, but they will kill you just as quick if you catch them. >Since these are generally work knives I'm guessing that > most attacks would be slash oriented and not thrust oriented. My > reasoning is if you use a knife to cut something (using it as a tool), you > generally think of using it in the edge modality and not thrusting > modality, because that's how you use it most of the time. > Now I know there is a bit of a knife culture in the Hispanic world, but I > don't think these guys actually practice or train in any way. I wouldn't be my life on that assumption. My friend > wanted to know if anyone has had any experience dealing with this > community and what kind of attacks are "typical" and what he could expect > in encounters. Short answer: The one that he'll use to try to kill you. Don't be so busy looking for snakes in the woods that you don't see the bear. You've stumbled on a much bigger problem than just technical aspects of attack. First off I grew up in a barrio anyway, the 'projects' were less than a mile away, my first stepdad was Mexican who grew up in East LA. I still have Mexican friends and friends who work closely with the 'Mexican' community within the US. In essence you are talking two seperate groups here, the Americanized Mexicans and the "New Arrivals." The older, more established Americanized -- if not American citizens -- and the newer, more wild and more hungry "illegals." Who don't know -- and quite frankly often, don't care -- how the game is played. Remember how I spoke in my Logic vs. Reality post about ethnic criminals being among the people who will often not hesitate to sacrifice themselves to get to you? Heeeeeerreeeees Johnny! While I wasn't only talking about Hispanics, your friends are going to be encountering a TOTALLY different mindset than what they are accustomed to -- including (and you can forward this post to your friend) a totally different set of pre-attack signals. That last one is critical for your friend to know because it isn't how he attack that will kill him, it's not recognizing the signals of an impending attack. Now what I am going to say here may sound racist, but it is in fact, more of examples of cultural differences than anything. Different ethnic groups give off different danger signals. And not knowing them will get you killed. For example, if a black guy goes quiet on you, it generally means that you have 'gotten over on him.' He's accepted that it's not going to work out and he isn't pushing it. NOT, I repeat NOT so with a Mexican. There is a particular, defiant silence that you see, that -- like seeing the sky turn green in tornado country -- tells you you are in deep shit. It's about to get really, really ugly. I often demonstrate this look when I am teaching police officers, tell your friend-- among other things to watch for -- that them rocking back on their heels, looking down their noses with obsidian eyes at you is NOT a happy sign. Also, and this is weird, watch their hats -- especially their cowboy hats. But ball caps are just as indicative. When the hats come off or are turned around, it isn't going to be good. There is a terrible video of an officer being killed by two Mexican nationals who team rushed him. The thing is you can see one of the guys carefully take his pristine white cowboy hat off and set it aside, just before he and his partner start moving into attack position. Then they rush and kill the officer. There are lots of other things that your friend needs to know...especially "Tu manos aqui" (too man Os a-kee/ your hands here -- holding your hands in front). Your friend doesn't have to be overbearing or aggressive, that will tend to get him attacked, but he DOES have to display a level of competence and awareness that tells the folks that it isn't going to be safe to tangle with him. My recommendation is that he gets on some cop forums or contacts different agencies (like the LAPD, LA Sherrif Dept and/or the Border Patrol) and start asking about how to deal with this culture. In closing I would like to point something out for your friend to consider. Hispanic males often engage in what are known as "death professions." That literally means they work in jobs that will eventually kill them. They do this to provide for their families. Especially among the new immigants, it is a 'hard scrabble' existence that leads to a particular mindset. And that is a sense that there are things more important than living. They will sacrifice themselves to achieve this end. If you get on the wrong side of this attitude, you are in some deep shit. They won't be messing around when they come for you. And they won't be over concerned about getting hurt in order to take you out. In answer to your friends query of how do they fight? Hard M --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:52:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] Year of the Dog Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Any excuse to party... The Lunar New Year begins January 29. 2006 is the year of the dog. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:01:23 -0800 From: Ray Terry To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Wekaf quals on Sunday Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Friday, January 27, 2006 Wekaf final qualifiers on Sunday at Coliseum Sun.Star Cebu The World Eskrima Kali Arnis Federation (Wekaf) will hold its final qualifying tournament for the Philippine team to the 9th Wekaf Championship on Sunday from 1 to 7 p.m. at the Cebu Coliseum. The "Battle of Championship" will be participated in by more than 100 winners of the previous four elimination events last year. The champion in each category together with qualifiers from Manila will join the pool from which the coaching staff will select its final line-up of 40 players who will be broken down to 20 from Cebu and 20 from Manila. This will be Team Philippines to the world championship in Disneyworld Dolphin Hotel in Orlando, Florida. The event, organized by the Cebu Eskrima Association and Wekaf, will have University of Cebu president Augusto Go and City Councilor Jack Jakosalem as guests. There will be special demonstrations by Grandmaster Rodrigo Maranga of the Maranga Eskrima de Combate, GM Prudencio Caburnay of Laputi de Abanico, GM Nick Elizar of the Nickelstick Balintawak, GM Isidro Casio of San Miguel Eskrima and Jerry Torres of the Dan Inosanto Academy. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest