Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 03:00:35 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #28 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.5 required=5.0 tests=EXCUSE_16,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Knife wounds (Gilmour, Julian) 2. Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #27 - most likely attack? (Bandile Dlabantu) 3. Re: Knife wounds (iPat) 4. Re: Knife wounds (ASC) 5. Re: Knife wounds (iPat) 6. racism in disguise? (TenDigitTouch) 7. Re: racism in disguise? (Steve Ames) 8. RE: racism in disguise? (Ken Borowiec) 9. Re: racism in disguise? (RichaCec@aol.com) 10. Lunar New Year/ CNY (Peter Gow) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:41:18 -0000 From: "Gilmour, Julian" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Knife wounds Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all Mercifully, I have no personal experience of knife fighting, and far less experience of violence than the likes of Mr Macyoung. A question has been raised in my mind about the purely psycological response to knife wounding, raised a few days ago. About 5 years ago I was out with a mate on a Saturday night, the girlfriend was away for the weekend and back at my flat I found my keys were missing. A window was open, and to cut a long story I had a nasty fall trying to get in. Underneath my flat I had typical London railings, ie with spikes about 6 or 7 inches long. I impaled myself through the left leg just below the knee, and (this was the REALLY painful one) 7 inches deep through my left buttock and was left hanging to one side with my weight supported by the skewered buttock. This was so painful that I impaled my hand pealing myself off it (being England it was raining), and was left hanging upside down with my impaled left leg over the railings. At my request my friend had to then come and help me off the remaining spike. When it first happened, I first said to my mate, INCREDIBLY calmly: "I think we're gonna need an ambulance" at which point he initially panicked (in fact he still doesn't like to talk about now as I nearly bled to death during the incident). Once I was off the railings, he ran off to try and flag traffic down and I decided to call my own abmbulance, calmly giving directions and personal details. I was perfectly lucid with the paramedics and even in hospital, having been told that my job was to stay concious. Rightly or wrongly, this suggests to me that some people are just going to panic very easily under extreme circumstances, and some won't. Surely this relates to wounded knife weilders too. I don't disagree with any of the discussion of wounding mechanics and bleeding times, but surely there is also a huge scope of psycological issues innate to the individual, and this to me seems A) hugely important but B) all but unknowable in advance. Thoughts? Chics dig scars Julian ############################################################################# ######## This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by NetIQ MailMarshal The recipient of this email should ensure that it is virus free. We do not accept any liability for any virus that may be conveyed with this email. ############################################################################# ######## --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:03:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Bandile Dlabantu To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #27 - most likely attack? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Guys I'm finding the most likely attack post by Marc and Daniel quite interesting. People who routinelly use knives are African or Coloured ( Cape Malay, Mixed descent) especially in the Cape area. Everyone learn how to knife fight through drills learnt in childhood, at through watching people getting stabbed. It's a matter of know how to use a knife or be its victim. Knife fighting is normally called Ghonni, Piper or Melha depending on what comunity one comes from. The knife of choice is an Okapi 1907E ( http://www.okapi-knives.com/ ) locally made blades. Attacks are normaly done from a knife hidden either in the sleeve, back pocket, waist or sock. The blade is held with point facing down or hidden by the arm, there is no slashing attacks are made with a ripping movement. This ensures lots of blood increasing the onset of shock in the victims. The delivery system uses uppercuts, hooks , jabs, crosses, the focus is positioning and speed. The attacks are preceded with distractions like shouting, spitting, slaps, punches or trips followed by a blade and the stabbing. The pattern of attack is either S shaped or Z shaped depending on regions the killer wound is almost on the kneck or under the left armpit. What makes these people effective with knives is simply that they don't train knife work it evolves as a natural means of survival. Ask any S.A martial artist ( FMA or otherwise) if he would try their martial arts out in the Cape flats only the idiots would say yeah. Every week there hospitals are filled with stabbing victims. When a guy pulls a knife out so you can see it and yells he is normally trying to scare you. If he is quiet and calm then you have to be worried because you'll feel it before you see it. sometimes the attacks starts with a guy getting angry and excited and he suddenly quitens down and becomes calm, they you run. There are often open duels between gang members , tying belts together and the guys going until one dies. The fighting methods are a strange mix of Boxing, African fighting techniques and Malay Silat. South Africa had no knife carrying culture until Malay slaves were brought to the Cape. Through the prison number gang system Piper infiltrated many sectors of the black and coloured community. Almost everyone in the townships know how to handle a knife or seen it being used and sometimes faced a knife weilding attacker. Marc said something about taking off hats before attacking, over here a person would take off a jersey or jacket and wrap it around one arm creating a sort of shield after that it is on. --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:51:46 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Knife wounds Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net oh come on listers, stop laughing! This was a serious incident.......i just dont know if the tears are for the pain felt by Julian or by my aching sides!!! ; )))) sorry mate! oooch On 1/27/06, Gilmour, Julian wrote: > > > > ...... and (this was the REALLY painful one) 7 > inches deep through my left buttock and was left hanging to one side > with my weight supported by the skewered buttock. This was so painful > that I impaled my hand pealing myself off it (being England it was > raining), and was left hanging upside down with my impaled left leg over > the railings. At my request my friend had to then come and help me off > the remaining spike. -- > Pat > > For the discovery of truth there is no path… --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 01:07:14 +1100 From: ASC To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Knife wounds Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net i was going to keep this to myself.. i guess not... however serious the situation was.. reading was just hilarious! iPat wrote: >oh come on listers, stop laughing! This was a serious incident.......i just >dont know if the tears are for the pain felt by Julian or by my aching >sides!!! ; )))) >sorry mate! >oooch > >On 1/27/06, Gilmour, Julian >wrote: > > >> >>...... and (this was the REALLY painful one) 7 >>inches deep through my left buttock and was left hanging to one side >>with my weight supported by the skewered buttock. This was so painful >>that I impaled my hand pealing myself off it (being England it was >>raining), and was left hanging upside down with my impaled left leg over >>the railings. At my request my friend had to then come and help me off >>the remaining spike. >> >> > > > > >-- > > >>Pat >> >>For the discovery of truth there is no path... >> >> >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:46:23 +0000 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Knife wounds Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net to be fair, Julian has told me this story before. But the serious quantities of alcohol at the time anaesthetised the pain in the sides. Today i sufferred ; ) On 1/27/06, ASC wrote: > > i was going to keep this to myself.. i guess not... however serious the > situation was.. reading was just hilarious! > > > > -- > Pat > > For the discovery of truth there is no path… --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:03:58 -0800 (PST) From: TenDigitTouch To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] racism in disguise? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net The question about an LEO wanting to know what kind of knives migrant workers typically carry seems innocent enough, at first. But is it really? Or does it go back to an old racist stereotype that all mexicans (males) carry knives and are therefore dangerous? Cmon, I figured this (forum) would be the last place that kind of bull shit would be tolerated. Thanks, Ray Purdy --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Steve Ames" To: Subject: Re: [Eskrima] racism in disguise? Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:25:11 -0500 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net TenDigitTouch wrote: > The question about an LEO wanting to know what kind of > knives migrant workers typically carry seems innocent > enough, at first. > > But is it really? Or does it go back to an old racist > stereotype that all mexicans (males) carry knives and > are therefore dangerous? Just about everyone I know carries a knife... and is therefore dangerous :) -steve --__--__-- Message: 8 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] racism in disguise? Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:35:09 -0500 From: "Ken Borowiec" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net TenDigitTouch wrote: > The question about an LEO wanting to know what kind of knives migrant > workers typically carry seems innocent enough, at first. > > But is it really? Or does it go back to an old racist stereotype that > all Mexicans (males) carry knives and are therefore dangerous? As far as I know even though Mexicans dominate "migrant worker" title. Isn't also racist to say that only they work the industry? Ken --__--__-- Message: 9 From: RichaCec@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:50:53 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] racism in disguise? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net What I got out of the thread was that he was trying to learn about a potential opponent (crouching tiger hidden dragon). No racism in that. Somebody always has to pull the race card. Suck it up. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:33:10 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Lunar New Year/ CNY Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To all Escrimadors: Sun Lin Fie Low   Gong Hey Fat Choi Happy CNY/Lunar NY and May the coming year be healthy, happy and prosperous for you. Best Regards, Peter Gow Australia --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest