Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 03:01:12 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #74 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Nanking (Michael Koblic) 2. Re: padded gear (Daniel Arola) 3. Stickfight/with protective gear (GatPuno@aol.com) 4. FMA teachers in Norfolk,Virginia Beach area?? (Walter Vorhauer) 5. Good advice (Gilmour, Julian) 6. Re: FMA teachers in Norfolk,Virginia Beach area?? (MaBagSikPTK@aol.com) 7. more to just the cuting & running (Bakbakan@aol.com) 8. Padded gear/ Eskrima Cage fight (Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness) 9. Re: more to just the cuting & running (Ray) 10. More Nanking (Michael Koblic) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:27:57 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] Nanking Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "The highest documented rate of confirmed blade kills in the 20th century were probably in the late 30s when 2 Japanese Army swordsmen had a toe-to-toe competition as to who could behead the most number of prisoners in 1 minute. I think one scored 106 and the other 107" Forgetting the moral aspect of this event (and one should not!) this is an incredible work-rate: Better than 0.6 seconds per head. Even with tatami mats this would be quite a feat... Michael Koblic, Campbell River, B. C. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:46:11 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] padded gear To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree Jason. I also am interested in exploring (with the group) the various differences of what it's like to spar at full contact with the different types of protective gear from lacrosse/street hockey gloves or even kendo kote for hand protection. I'm also interested in switching headgear from fencing masks, WEKAF/DP Escrima helmets even to hockey goalie helmets for head protection. I'm even okay with putting on the "big pillow robot" vest every now an then. For those who "think" it's so COOL to spar without gear, take a look at this link from the Sayoc Kali camp(excerpt from their "Stickgrappling" dvd)... and think again before you agree with yourself.http://sayoc.com/vidclips/stickgrappling01.mov -I DIG IT! __________________________________________________________ These following two links I got from my myspace buddy RayLeo from Hawaii of himself and sparring partner wearing the full FMA WEKAF required tournament gear. It's pretty cool. http://www.youtube.com/?v=TEAjZJHs-Wo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtUbepjhFOk Some guy named JC put this video up on youtube.com: http://youtube.com/watch?v=LvFLwW7APWI ________________________________________________________________________ This clip below is of a Kali/stickfighting tournament on the sand at the beach in Rio de Janeiro Brazil. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dco3Pkrxi6Y ________________________________________________________________________ Here we go Jason. Our group sparring with the double sticks with hockey gloves and fencing masks. http://youtube.com/watch?v=K6P6WHMIJKg I'm even interested in cross-training and trading off with some of the SCA fighters. All in good fun! Daniel Arola jason couture wrote: Putting on layers of protective gear when sparring is fine, as long as you still train like you don't have it on. This is the biggest problem I've seen with students. They put the gear on and go caveman on each other but, forget to block or avoid incoming strikes. The padding takes the fear and respect for pain away. After all, the rattan is suppose to be a blade.....you don't want to trade blows. I've been stupid enough to stickfight without head protection (years ago). I don't recommend it. To me, head protection is a must. I'd like to start moving away from gloves and ONLY use head protection because, the hand is such a vital target for disarms (people really start respecting the stick when their hand is hanging out there). The rate for broken hands and fingers rise, which makes it a difficult choice to make. So is the life of a warrior. **JASON COUTURE** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 06:33:05 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Stickfight/with protective gear Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello Junk and Jason, Let me jump in to your conversation. I am pretty much passed to all the non-related issue to FMA topic. This particular topic, I like to put my two cent again. I am and still 100% believer of the stick fight without gear, okay for training Head Gear probably the most important gear to have to especially to the novice practitioner. Sparring with gear, really teach most of the practitioner a bad habits. The practitioner forget that they need to avoid being struck instead of changing blow to blow or what I call it 50/50. I watch numerous tournament, and every one is doing the same thing, like two guys that don't know what they doing hitting each other with stick. They clashed and stay inside and changing blow without even applying blocks, just plain you hit me and I hit you series. I told every practitioner that I able to train, learn how to avoid getting hit first which is the hardest way to do. But if you don't practice now when you going to practiced, when you are on that situation already and the stick was replace by real Bolo or blades? Your training a non-sense arts, if you do that kind of training, because you are missing the real essence of training. FMA is known for using Triangular footwork that work equally well to evade and to avoid the practitioner attack, if you are practice them rights. Last July I went home to Philippines and check out the "Filipino Groups of Arnisador that teach in Luneta, Manila Philippines." To invite them to my tournament in Paete, Laguna which is 113 klm. I went there to pay visit to few Eskrimador that I wanted to be friends and en-lighten them to the real world of stickfighting or even real blade situation for that matter. When I was there, I saw one Grandmaster demonstrating his techniques, I tell you is not looks good, I asked a series of question, "What if" and this Grandmaster keep telling me that he can and he will used the techniques that he is demonstrating in effective ways. Needless to say, I have to show this claimed GM, the reality to wake him up. I challenge the GM, sure enough he accept my challenge, and we suppose to do Two rounds, but there six more GM is there Luneta at that time, so I have to put my self in place be aware that I have listen to all of them at the same time. Anyway this GM accept my challenge and we went on it, real stick, no padded,. rules is to avoid being hit and used his techniques and my techniques effectively. The fight was stop by 6 other GM after 6 seconds match on the first round. As he assumed hitting me, I sway back my body to avoid his strikes and hit him 4 times one strike to his arm and three landed to his head. Needless to say, his techniques does not materialized to the real situation, I waited for the decision of the 6 GM if they will allow us to fight again, the six GM said its enough, we have seen enough. I hold my self responsible to what happen there, but If I don't do that, probably he would not stop thinking his stuff works. Warning: I am not asking you to do what I did, but you are in the right observation in regards of the tournament is going. Sport is a sport but its always nice and good to know your craft is work on real situation too. I know the sake of sport, safety is a big factor of sports stickfighting, used gear, but I believed we still can practice the techniques effectively, to avoid being hit, and on the beginning you get hit, then remember and used that as progression, but if you don't practice that now, when will you practice this? It is not too late yet, the drills is cool training material, but this is a plain simple theory of practicing Martial Arts, avoid being a victim. All in all, I just want to let you all know, I am still here and my preaching still the same, and thank God some of you are already seing it clear the benefits and bad habit of Gear in Sparring. In regards of the "Knife Fighting and Knifers" play with it chances are you gonna get cut. That why we don't play with the knife we respect knife, and not to mention when you are fighting multiple opponent, no matter how good you are, and they out numbered you, don't be silly, it is a heck of a situation to be, its only happen in movies not to get cut if you have this situation, you killed one or two may be more, chances are you will go down too. Luckily there are smart fighter out there telling you to run, hey, its a great idea, if you can run faster that anyone of them that the good techniques at that moments used it. I will do anything to stay alive, but if you get into a corner that you are no where to run, then probably I will do the best I could do to survived but, it will be the hardest thing to do, so I would take someone with me to heaven or hell for that matters. Okay enough said, Be well everyone, Gumagalang/with respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Garimot Arnis Training Group International Laguna Arnis Federation International Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot USA From: "junk" _junk@obdurate-anomalism.org_ (mailto:junk@obdurate-anomalism.org) I am only through my first few months of training and came to pretty much the same conclusion after watching my first competition under wekaf rules. Defense seemed to be pretty much ignored with all the gear on. It also seemed to me that regularly sparring with that mindset could possibly create very bad habits; the kind that I certainly would not want to have surface in a survival situation. Fortunately my instructor feels the same way. -----Original Message----- From: jason couture [mailto:airbornecouture@yahoo.com] Putting on layers of protective gear when sparring is fine, as long as you still train like you don't have it on. This is the biggest problem I've seen with students. They put the gear on and go caveman on each other but, forget to block or avoid incoming strikes. The padding takes the fear and respect for pain away. After all, the rattan is suppose to be a blade.....you don't want to trade blows. I've been stupid enough to stickfight without head protection (years ago). I don't recommend it. To me, head protection is a must. I'd like to start moving away from gloves and ONLY use head protection because, the hand is such a vital target for disarms (people really start respecting the stick when their hand is hanging out there). The rate for broken hands and fingers rise, which makes it a difficult choice to make. So is the life of a warrior. **JASON COUTURE** --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 05:30:48 -0800 (PST) From: Walter Vorhauer To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA teachers in Norfolk,Virginia Beach area?? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings, I'm looking for instructors/teachers in the Virginia Beach/Norfolk, VA area. I've heard that there is a few places out there, and I recently just returned from a job-interview trip from that area. If anyone can recommend any teachers/instructors, it would be much appreciated. You may e-mail me privately or post to the forum. Thank you. W.v. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:42:49 -0000 From: "Gilmour, Julian" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Good advice Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all I was having a drink with one of my instructors the other day, he has trained extensively with Rick Faye (Minnesota Kali Group). He said he was at a seminar where Guro Rick was explaining certain circumstances relating to defending against a blade in a real life situation. "...hands up anyone here who has actually been in this situation at least once" Several hands went up. "So you'll all know exactly what I'm talking about then. The rest of you - keep on doing what you're doing" Empty your cup Julian ############################################################################# ######## This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared by NetIQ MailMarshal The recipient of this email should ensure that it is virus free. We do not accept any liability for any virus that may be conveyed with this email. ############################################################################# ######## --__--__-- Message: 6 From: MaBagSikPTK@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 09:37:47 EST Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMA teachers in Norfolk,Virginia Beach area?? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Look for Guro Mateo of GLobal Martial Arts Academy. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Bakbakan@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 10:32:27 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] more to just the cuting & running Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/7/2006 12:55:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Message: 4 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 07:54:32 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] re: Cardinal rules of combat Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote>If not, then I suggest you find a better instructor. This is poor advice to the readers especially those less educated. Why not simply educate the readers/students on what to look for or what you consider the essentials of knife studies? Marc wrote>That's interesting, especially because last night I got to sit down and read a book someone sent me a book called "Masters of the Blade." I only recall seeing one instructor show a cut and run technique. Saw a lot of multiple hits and kill shots after you've disarmed your opponent. The cut & run strategy is essential to know. However, you left one important point out. And that is, when to utilize it. After all, the scenario you find yourself in dictates the proper action plan. Consider this, someone pulls a knife, you draw yours, cut & run or better yet STAB & run. He is left for dead and next thing you know the Police are knocking at your door. And the only recollection is that you fled the scene. Just something to think about. JohnJ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2006 15:50:22 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Padded gear/ Eskrima Cage fight Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That has been the biggest problem with using padded gear, in any combat sport, too much reliance on the padding and not enough on realistic defense. That said, not many people are willing to stickfight with just a helmet so to get more people involved sufficient padding is essential. Sparring is the best way to highten a students skill..If it takes some padding then so be it. For hardcore fighters less is better. One observation I do have is fighting "WEKAF" style (no takedowns etc) in a closed ring is pretty intense. Like alot of martial arts, the "sports" version tends to adapt to the rules. If the rules look to the fighter who inflicts "more damage", then fighters are going to come out swinging. In fights where there is reduced gear fighters are more cautious how they engage. How should one train? Depends on the focus but from a realistic point, adaquate protective gear is essential for longivity. The instructor can adjust the sessions/rules to accomplish a desired result.. for example I do "first blood" rounds..First hit on the head the fight is over!.. this focuses the students attendion to defense. GM Cacoy once told me that he trained like my advanced students were training, little gear, throws etc - although his fights were without the helmet! We just put on an event which was Eskrima/MMA in a cage (takedowns/striking allowed). In my mind this is less intense than just stick as you can get the stick out of play.... I had only one taker, one of my students..As we train it he was familiar with it. I received alot of request for the rules and no one else was able to do it. We are going to try it again in May in NJ and hopefully can make this one happen. Anyone interested in this let me know. Don Edwards www.imafit.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] more to just the cuting & running To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 08:18:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ... Consider this, someone pulls a > knife, you draw yours, cut & run or better yet STAB & run. He is left for dead > and next thing you know the Police are knocking at your door. And the only > recollection is that you fled the scene. Yes, this has been tried before... unsuccessfully. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 23:59:48 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] More Nanking Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Is this the incident referred to? This description would make more sense to me. http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20050826_1.htm Michael Koblic, Campbell River, B. C. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest