Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 17:04:52 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #151 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Is this saying?....bigotry in FMA (Daniel Arola) 2. Re: Pekiti-Tirsia Training in RI (Beungood8@aol.com) 3. bigotry is (Fenris Maelstrom) 4. RE: bigotry is (Ken Borowiec) 5. Cacoy Canete seminar (Martial Arts Seminars) 6. Myspace, jihad and eskrima/kali (Eskrima-FMA) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 10:06:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Arola Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Is this saying?....bigotry in FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Bigotry among Filipinos is more common than they will ever admit. Even among some FMA practitioners. As one who is born of Filipino descent living in the US, I have grown weary and gradually disgusted everytime I hear or read that same old dumb line that says: "We are Filipino, we got to stick together. Forget these (*insert color_____) people... They know nothing". (*sigh) You should see the look in their eyes when I tell them that my FMA instructor is this tall skinny corn-fed white guy from Iowa that had taught me more about FMA than any Filipino would have taught me. Daniel Arola DAMAG-INC Marc Denny wrote: Hi Jay: Thank you for your reply. I intersperse my comments below: > , , , If you mean the author is bigoted against Filipino-Chinese, or his > personal views are, I assure you he is not and they are not. >The author, > Manuel Tiangha, is of Chinese descent. If you mean the views he presents > in the email, whether they are originally his >or somebody else, are > bigoted, that is a different question. Seems like a distinction without a difference to me. If someone presents bigoted views without identifying them as such, it seems reasonable to me to think that he may share those views. To say BEGIN > (Caveat: I am going to re-tell a theory or theories which has or have > been posited very silently - in fact, mentioned only in whispers -in many > academic circles, particularly in the US- because they are thoroughly > controversial and shocking. I am summarizing the theory not because I > necessarily agree with it/them). END strikes me as , , , coy-- and similar to the way I have seen anti-semites try to spread their attitude. What is the point of posting this piece of bigotry? I don't see a reason given here. > , , , The other side of the coin is that many of these Filipino-Chinese > (sometimes called tsinoys, short for chinese and pinoy) have >become > extremely wealthy and powerful. As Tiangha points out, many of them were > merchants in the first place. There is a >current breed of tsinoys now > called taipans, extremely wealthy (up there with Bill Gates) with a lot of > economic clout. I am sure >many of them came to their wealth through > hard, honest work. But there are a handful of tsinoys who became > millionaires, and >then exploited and became beneficiaries of the corrupt > Filipino political and business system. Just like other wealthy, corrupt Filipinos? What is the point of focusing on their Chinese heritage? > Let me remind you this is basically an economic discussion. Tiangha and > many luxids and myself basically agree on what the problem is in the > Philippines. The crooked tsinoys exacerbate this problem. The > disagreement with us is what the solution is. > Are filipinos bigoted against tsinoys, on the basis of their ethnicity, > religion, culture, etc.? My personal take is, generally no. >They might > get envious of their material success. CROOKEDNESS exacerbates the problem, not "the crooked tsinoys". As for the emotion of "envy" it has taken many to ugly places throughout history. Maybe that is why one of the Ten Commandments speaks of not coveting our neighbors goods? Lets look at the original post, which in part said: BEGIN The overseas Asians : Their role as culprits time and time again in > keeping the Philippines and the Filipinos where they are: (!!!!!!!!!!!) Change the names and this could be a screed against the Jews in Europe. This is bigotry, plain and simple. > It has been said that allowing these peripatetic nomads to control (over > the last 500 years ) large portions of the local "economy" will always > be a problem for generating "national" unity. Why will this "tolerance" be > dangerous? Again, their (the overseas Asians) loyalty is only to their > specific family and their clan (who speaks their language and where they > share the same food) and so they could usurp and corrupt the local people > without care or pangs of conscience. These overseas Asians were expelled > from a certain country by the Mandarin (educated) class who looked down on > merchants as a lower/useless class (because it is said that they > (merchants) do not or did not subscribe to any sense of nationhood or > sense of ethics or sense of sacrifice or to a higher purpose but only > focused on immediate material gain/ and immediate material satisfaction). More of the same. > A merchant always looks at things in terms of material gain, material > loss or breaking even and looks at relationships in terms of a transaction > (for the gain, loss or breaking-even). ANYONE in business thinks in terms of gain or loss!!!-- yet here we see the same claim as made against the Jews as if they are different for doing so-- and that they think of money before and above friendship. > Bottom Line: If the economy (and the people buried under it) is seen as > a hunting ground by the overseas Asians who partner with the local "elite" > to exploit the general population (thus a large population is in fact > always an asset from a market standpoint) - then the existence of the > autocracy or autocratic elite (in political elections, in business, in > military affairs, in government) will always be sustained and always be > perpetuated without necessarily looking at the "national good". The sense > of a "national good" is a harmful idea to the overseas Asians. Just like the "international conspiracy" claim leveled against the Jews. END of quote from original post. Returning now to your most recent post: > Many filipinos have similar personal stories about tsinoys. I will tell > you mine briefly to give you an idea. One of my best >friends and > business associates in college was a tsinoy named George G. He was still > in college, but he was one of his father's >salesmen. By the time I met > him, his family was worth millions (dollars, not pesos), with several > businesses and manufacturing >plants in Taiwan. But he told me how they > became millionaires. His grandfather came on a boat to the Philippines > with nothing >but the shirt on his back. He started his business by > picking up bent nails (pako) in construction sites in Manila. Then he > would >go home and pound the nails to get them straight again. Then he > resold the straightened nails. And that is how he built his > multi->million dollar empire. I met this grandfather. He still spoke > tagalog with a sing-song chinese accent. Would I be bigoted against a > >man like that? Definitely not. He had my respect and admiration. Would > the average filipino be bigoted against an honest >businessman like that? > I do not think so. I have seen before stories like this used by those angry against blacks and/or Jews to seek to misdirect their listeners' attention away from the fact of their anger. > The problem is, how come the filipino was not as industrious, creative, > forward-looking, etc., etc.. (Remember Gat Puno Abon mentioning Juan > Tamad, or John Lazy?) As I began by saying, I am quite lacking in knowledge about much in the Philippines-- but my sense of how the world works leads me to suspect that social and political-economic structures in place since the time of the Spanish (e.g. similar to Latin America, about which I do have some education) have a lot to do with it. ((The Spanish conquistador mentality also was hostile to merchants--note too that they threw the Jews out of Spain-- and to my eye we see a progeny of this thinking in the piece you shared here.)) People are people, and given opportunity they will tend to take advantage of it-- this certainly has been my experience of the Filipinos here in California (the third largest ethnic group btw after whites and latinos). The answer to the Philippines problems I suspect lays more in addressing this political-cultural heritage dating back to the Spanish period than in blaming "The overseas Asians (as) culprits time and time again in keeping the Philippines and the Filipinos where they are"!!! People who've been on this list a while know that I am well to the right of Attila the Hun on most issues. I have little patience for the professional victims and racebaiters who litter the American landscape, so my comments in this matter are those of a man who rarely makes such comments. In closing, a small story. Around 1996 or 1997 it was at the time in Indonesia of what could fairly be called "pograms" (just like the pograms in Europe against the Jews) against Indonesians of Chinese ancestry by Muslims mobs saying things indistinguishable from the post to which I have reacted. There were killings and gang rapes of Chinese-Indo women, often right there next to the bodies of their men. A Chinese-Indo came to me to teach him real knife. He was the stereotype of the Chinese bookworm who you could blindfold with dental floss. He was studying to be an accountant-- yet he had good reason to fear as he walked down the street for being an oppressor and exploiter of "true Indonesians". He was no athlete. He was no martial artist. He was a man in fear of the hatred propelled by envy and, as his fiance watched, I taught him as best as I could for 5 days. He later wrote me after a successful use of the skills to ward off an attempt by a Muslim gang to thank me. I'm proud of that. Jay, I'm sorry to be so direct and confrontational on this, but I simply saw no way to dance around it. The post was bigoted. The Adventure continues, Marc. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 13:45:42 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Pekiti-Tirsia Training in RI Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just a quick post to say that our training with Tuhon Leo Gaje was again awesome training. What a great birthday present to learn from a legend! We were were worked very hard by Tuhon who as always was very humble articulate and fun to work with. His Seminars have got to be among the hardest I have attended. It really proves the point of working your foot work and striking and footwork relentlessley to condition and also to make it part of you. Salamat, JAck --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 11:28:24 -0700 From: Fenris Maelstrom To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] bigotry is Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I find Marc's comments fair - bigotry is attaching bias for some external attribute (like race). It gets us into the racial intolerance game and thence to the cycle of violence. Saying "some but not all X" begs the question why X was brought up at all (where X could be Jew, black, tsinoy, educated white American, goy or anything else defined by external character). And good intentions don't take the edge off that blade - it cuts both ways. And just for the record, I'm a good deal left of Attila the Hun. Quoting eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net: > Message: 3 > > >He was the stereotype of the Chinese bookworm who you could blindfold > with dental floss. > > For someone screaming bigotry why in the world would you say a flat out > racist comment like this? > > >Just like other wealthy, corrupt Filipinos? What is the point of > focusing on their Chinese heritage? > > Because he is talking about tsinoys, "short for Chinese and pinoy" > -- Loki Jorgenson loki@maelstromCore.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] bigotry is Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 15:40:06 -0400 From: "Ken Borowiec" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net If the subject of the article is to explain how one race dominates over another in some sense do you not have to state the race as the conversation continues. It would be like having a conversation about slavery without having ANY form of racial indicator. Its impossible. Even saying slave would indicate African Americans wouldn't it? Saying Slave owners would indicate Whites. So the question remains when having a conversation where the main subject involves race how do you do it with out mentioning it in any way? And most of any conversation about slavery would indicate a bias in one direction or the other. Ken --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 13:58:08 -0700 From: "Martial Arts Seminars" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Cacoy Canete seminar Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net HOUSE OF CHAMPIONS Proudly Presents Grand Master "Cacoy" Canete DOCE PARES SEMINAR Pre-register SAVE $10.00! Deadline May31st Black Belts ONLY: June 24 12:00-4:00 pm $60.00 (PRICE CORRECTION) All levels: June 25 10:00 am - 4:00 pm $95.00 (PRICE CORRECTION) 2-DAY SEMINAR SPECIAL: Train both days for only $135.00! HOUSE OF CHAMPIONS 17228 Saticoy St Van Nuys, CA 91406 (818) 996-7180 Email: mparrahoc@sbcglobal.net --- Ray --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 16:42:35 -0700 From: Eskrima-FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Myspace, jihad and eskrima/kali Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net GLOBAL JIHAD MySpace.com hosts wannabe terrorists Popular site provides fertile ground for recruitment, glorification of jihad May 16, 2006 WorldNetDaily.com While concerns about MySpace.com often focus on its use by sexual predators, the popular youth networking website may also pose a risk to the nation's security. An investigation found the website to be fertile ground for inspiring and recruiting a new generation of Islamic terrorists, according to independent analyst Laura Mansfield. A young man from Seattle, for example, who gives his name as Amin Al-Mujaahid As-Salafi – or "Salafi Jihaadi – has a blog that features images of al-Qaida leaders Osama bin Laden and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, British jihadist Abu Hamza, and the 19 hijackers who carried out the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, referring to them as the "Magnificent 19." An audio link on his site – titled "Du'a by Abdul Rahman – "sounds absolutely Hitleresque," Mansfield says. She finds a "disturbing pattern" emerging in a closer examination of the 78 "friends" listed in As-Salafi's "social network." His friend Rashid Ali, who describes himself as a 31-year-old living in Seattle, has similar views. Ali describes his activities: Reading Quran & hadith, Training Hui (Chinese-Muslim) kung-fu, Makoto-Ryu aki-jujitsu, & muay-thai-kick-boxing, NiNjitsu, Penjat-Silat, escrima:Kali/JKD.Target shooting ect. And hanging out with. My Big Bro Imam Rahim Like his "friend," Ali includes jihadi-tribute imagery and the black flag of jihad on his page. "With over 173 people listed, Ali appears to be part of a wide network of people who share similar sentiments," Mansfield says. A MySpace blog called "Soldiers of Allah" features the hard-edged tones of rap to call Muslims to faithfulness in titles such as "No Compromise" and "Bring Islam Back." Soldiers of Allah says it's "not a jihad group" but declares, "Remember we are the next generation of Muslims and it's an obligation and responsibility of each and every Muslim to implement as Allah commanded." Soldiers of Allah has 258 people in its "social network." Among them is 19-year-old Salafi Mujahid of Chicago who boasts an image on his page that says "Support Our Troops" above Arabic writing and an assault rifle. The site also has images glorifying Zarqawi. Mujahid says he's an architecture major at College Of DuPage in Glen Ellyn, Ill., who is active in the Muslim Students Association. Some of these youth, such as 17-year old "Yaqub," seem to simply echo Islamist propaganda, Mansfield says. Yaqub, from Plainfield, N.J., proclaims "Denmark Is messin with the wrong people!!" Some, such as 17-year old Aaron Moore of West Haven, Conn., seem to have developed profound anti-American feelings: white ppl (or americans) killed most of the native Americans they caused the trail of tears (deals with the native americans, mostly of the Cherokee nation) then they continue pushing them back on the western front … americans say "all muslims are saveges, or animal beasts" (as they did to the native americans, [see a cycle?]) or the americans also say "ohh, arabs and muslims are almost humans". Others, such as 19-year old "Islamakazi," are more explicit, posting a countdown until what he describes as "Iran war (world war 3)." Along with the "countdown clock" are a variety of other images glorifying jihadi and terrorist leaders, including Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Jihadi imagery, video and audio easily are found on MySpace.com sites of young girls as well as of older male youth, Mansfield points out. A young California woman, this one claiming to be 18 and posting under the screen name "Islam4Ever," is listed in "3rabiah's" circle of friends. Recruiting MySpace.com is fertile ground for terrorist recruitment, Mansfield says. Nineteen-year-old Hemadah from Brooklyn is like many of the other teenagers on the site, describing himself as 190 pounds, 5'8" tall and a Gemeni of Middle Eastern descent. He doesn't drink, has no children and is a college student. He has cute photos of beautiful children, in this case his niece and nephew. He has a special love for everything bagels and wants to go "to college to become a cop, hopefully work my way up as a detective." But a look at his MySpace blog suggests he's anything but ordinary. How does he want to die?: "AS A MARTYR, IF NOT THAT WAY, THEN WHILE IM PRAYING AND MY HEADS ON THE FLOOR" Twenty-one year old Isa from Fort Worth, Texas, also says he wants to die as a martyr. Twenty-three year old Kareemwazwaz, who posts a photo of Palestinian terrorist Izz el din Qassam on his webpage, includes this posting: How do you want to Die: a martyr for palestine What do you want to be when you Grow Up: a martyr for Palestine Mahmoud, a student from the University Of California at Santa Cruz, expresses similar sentiments. How does Mahmoud want to die? "defending something ... either my family, my religion, or my country ... basically i wanna die a martyr" He includes a photo from the UC Santa Cruz "Palestinian Die-In," dated May 9. A 17-year-old girl from California echos the two young men, saying she wants to die "as a Martyr (Shahid) insha'a Allah." Eighteen year old Fayyad of Oviedo, Fla., has even bolder aspirations. The University of Central Florida student wants to die "as a martyr for God or in a huge nuclear explosion." Mansfield says such beliefs are not rare among MySpace.com users, identifying blogs belonging to more than 70 young people who want to die as a martyr. "Is one of these 70young people, who openly aspire to be a martyr in the name of Allah, one of the next wave of terrorists who will attack America?" Mansfield asks. Mansfield said the FBI, when contacted regarding the websites, said all of the material is "protected free speech." --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest