Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:43:18 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #196 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: What Men Read (iPat) 2. Bareknuckle (Ollie Batts) 3. Re: Bareknuckle (iPat) 4. Re: What Men Read (Kwiter Greci) 5. Re: What Men Read (abreton@juno.com) 6. Re: Bareknuckle Boxing (Jon Broster) 7. What Men Read (Leo Daher) 8. Writer's Digest Article (Peter Gow) 9. FMA Festival Philippines (Punong Guro Steven Dowd) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 10:00:19 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What Men Read Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net as a martial arts guy, running a full time school and with a day job, familly, dog etc i dont get time to read a newspaper let alone a book. i do have some well thumbed philosophy books and i do like reading history.... if only to have the luxury. On 6/21/06, Bill McGrath wrote: > > Hey Guys, > > A (very tangentially) martial arts related request. I > get the online version of Writers Digest magazine. In > the last issue there was an article entitled "Do Men > Read" the basic premise of which was that since only > > -- > Pat Davies > www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:21:42 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Bareknuckle Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Indeed it does Julian, especially among the travelling community. In fact it was only the other week, not ten miles from me, that the Police closed off a road and turned a blind eye whilst the two travellers had a set to. Pugil Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:31:24 +0100 From: "Gilmour, Julian" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Bareknuckle Boxing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, Organised bareknuckle boxing still goes on in Britain and no doubt many other places in some small capacity. I have just read "King of the Gypsies", the autobiography of Bartley Gorman - 'The undefeated bareknuckle fighter of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales'. He passed away in (I think) 2003. Loads of accounts of gypsy bareknuckle bouts, both pre-arranged prize fights and pub brawls. I found it a fascinating insight into a hidden culture, although there is no doubt a lot of embelishment. I also have an hour or two of footage of gypsy men fighting, filmed with camcorders. A lot more rules than I expected to see - they are always separated from the clinch and if anyone falls over, they are given the time to get 'up to scratch'. I also have footage of an elderly Bartley hitting a heavy bag. Very powerful-looking and lots of straight line stuff - I think hooks are uncommon if no hand protection is worn, so as to protect from wrist injury. I expect panatukan would work fine, although in the footage I saw, any headbutts resulted in a bit of a 'telling off'. Empty your cup Julian --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:59:02 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Bareknuckle Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Ipswich every year saw the travelling community - or pikey's - turn up to make their living at the local fete. The Saturday night would see the annual 'off' which was not organised but a mass set to similar to that found with football team allegiences and was a 'coming of age' event for many of us - lol. However you would hear tales of some of the local charachters having gone toe to toe for money with their champion(s). They repeated this probably at every event on each weekend throughout the summer! Martin Knight and Martin King did a book i recall: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1840185090/qid=1150894340/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_2_1/203-7478781-5641518 On 6/21/06, Ollie Batts wrote: > > Indeed it does Julian, especially among the travelling community. In fact > it > was only the other week, not ten miles from me, that the Police closed off > a > road and turned a blind eye whilst the two travellers had a set to. > > Pugil > > -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 12:49:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Kwiter Greci Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What Men Read To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm an Avid Reader, if not watching a video during lunch break and coffee break I'm reading a book from the Library or a magazine of some sort. I avoid Newspapers like the plague tho. Just requested books on Kempo from the Library and a few on Mohawk History ;-) O:nen ki' wahi' Bye for now http://www.urbanskinz.com Custom Apparel, Housewares and more, all designed by Mohawk Artist Peter Kwiter Greci http://kwiter.webhop.org My Home on the Web Podcast is at http://www.mobilepodcast.org/kwiter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "abreton@juno.com" Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:43:17 GMT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] What Men Read Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I don't know if the final argument - that if the market exists for a book, it will be published, and since we don't see books for men published, then no market exists - makes sense. Of course, she's going to be a little flip at the beginning and at the end, so it's hard to tell how seriously she believes the argument. There are lots of examples of good books that struggle to get published, only to become best sellers later. (We're hoping Tuhon McGrath's book becomes one of these). Speaking of fiction, the idea that men aren't in touch with inner conflicts is a fiction. Take any 'great books' course in college and you'll find some intense universal conflict that has withstood the test of time authored by - and for a long time predominantly read by - men. You can't tell me those books didn't become great without inner conflict. Note that most of the conflict is not the Jane Austen type. No one said the golden standard for conflict should be the "inner feminine" type (or for that matter that "inner" had to be "feminine-type inner"). I think the idea that guys are "do-ers" - while true - sells us short. Yes, guys like action, but look at the possibilities available in "guy-based action": an action that comes with high personal risk to oneself or ones loved ones, two conflicting alternatives for action both of which are morally inferior choices but one of which must be done, action that has to take place carefully for the slightest mistake will cost the lives of those dear to the protagonist, action that puts a person in conflict with established authority that the protagonist has grown up to believe in and has a vested interest in. All these could have an interiority without necessarily having female interiority. (It's interesting to note that most of those actions comes with taking a stand, standing for something, choosing which side to stand with). I think the women are more shoppers than men could be true, although I would modify it to 'retail shoppers'. I won't buy a lot of stuff because I simply don't know that much about the author or the content and the back cover is non-descriptive. For that reason, if I buy a fiction book, it's usually in a second-hand bookstore. Another reason: I stop reading some books after the first few chapters, so few books are keepers. That's not something that should be ignored completed. A friend of mine recently told me his favorite book was Shogun. Shogun is a book I go back to and re-read every few years, and there are a number of similar books that I go back to of known quality. In part, that known quality are particular authors, but actually that's usually not the case. I like some of Steven King's novellas, for example, but not the horror genre. So, second hand stores and books I've read before. That may not make a publisher happy, but I'm not going to shell out $8 for a book I know next to nothing about. What will I shell out money for? Martial arts books, obviously. History. Things related to my job. Like you said: about stuff. I find a parallel to martial arts. Of all the martial arts available, most guys - even if they explore other arts - tend to have one or two base arts. Why? For one, it's a known quality (you can read just about any MA rag and interpret the articles as making the case that a particular art is a known quality: the grandmaster has amazing abilities and a great 'pedigree', famous people do it, a lot of people do it, the particular art has the same thing as other well-known arts, etc.). But people also realize instinctively that to get any depth, you have to stick to one thing. Ask someone why they picked a particular art. Sometimes you'll get 'it was down the street' or 'on my way home from work' or 'the classes worked with my schedule', but to stay with it the art had to have ... well, stuff. We had to see that it worked, for the kind of situations we were familiar with. It helped to see senior students, the depth of their abilities and the breadth of their abilities (e.g. weapons, ground fighting). It could be that guys reading works the same way: they know what they like and they like their time to be spent on something with substance, irrespective of what the publishers anoint or what the bookstores put on thier shelves. That doesn't mean that we won't explore in the same way I'll go to a inexpensive seminar in another martial art. Case in point: I bought the DaVinci code (in a second hand store). In the same way I like to know the history of a martial art I'm learning, I like historical fiction, but not the "Cheyyenne was torn between the world of her fathers and the world of the white stranger who saved her from the raging bear" variety. When I moved here, I read James Mitchner's Hawaii, and from there several of his other books. The book I'm reading now is "Jackdaws" by Ken Follett. I got it because of the World War II subject matter. I'll finish it, but just because I like the villain. I have to say, though, I'm not the biggest reader. For the past decade or more, my non-work reading has been limited to 15-20 minutes before falling asleep. Andy -- Bill McGrath wrote: --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:09:39 +0100 (BST) From: Jon Broster Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Bareknuckle Boxing To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Organised bareknuckle boxing still goes on in Britain and no doubt >many >other places in some small capacity. > >I have just read "King of the Gypsies", the autobiography of Bartley >Gorman - 'The undefeated bareknuckle fighter of England, Ireland, >Scotland and Wales'. > Hi, Yes it most definitely does! Last year the local paper here (Newark in Nottinghamshire) ran a front page article on a fight in a park in Newark. It seems that some Gypsies from the south had met up with some from the north right here (on neutral ground) to settle some differences. They had contacted the police to let them know what was happening, but the 2 officers sent were not in a position to stop the hundreds of spectators (all gypsies) that had turned up. It also seems that it was an all-male affair - the report was written by the newspaper's photographer (a man), because they would not let the reporter (a woman) watch the fight! The fight came about because one thought that he was "better" than the other! Jon "There's nothing more dangerous than a blunt knife" http://www.pecahan.net --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Leo Daher" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] What Men Read Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:50:02 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Though admittedly not a big fiction fan, I have enjoyed books by Marcus Wynne and Stephen Hunter. Good, well-researched action stories. "Praise be that which toughens" - Nietzsche --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 22:58:48 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Writer's Digest Article Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tuhon Bill, I have read the article by Writer's Digest and there is big holes in the logic that is put forward by the author. 1. The author quotes 20% of sales are men so who is to say that the other 80% of sales purchased are not composed of gifts for men purchased by female friends, wifes or defactos. 2. The author's next point is a purely personal one it is an extreme based on her family - so do we accept her family as the quientiessential familyor a one family that has some males who are not interested in what she has given them to read or perhaps in fact all families are different. 3. Where did she get her figures from for the 20% of sales? Without quoting where the author has magically obtained the 20% figure her argument losses all credence. 4. There are no figures of how many people were surveyed unless you count the three in her familly - the author, her husband and her son. 5. Perhaps men are so focussed on their work or have pressure from their work that they do not have the time to read a novel. 6. It's far easier to watch an (action) movie with special effects and share the experience with the family as opposed to reading which is a solitary experience, so if we used the author's logic this would mean that men are more sharing and women are not - not good logic. In conclusion I personally would not waste my precious time in responding to this article, but do as you please. Respectfully, Peter Gow Australia --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:45:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Punong Guro Steven Dowd To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] FMA Festival Philippines Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Go to the FMAdigest main page, below the subscription sign up, check out the Promo video of the 3rd FMA Festival. www.fmadigest.com Note: May take a time to buffer before starting. Arnis Balite www.arnisbalite.com --------------------------------- Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest