Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 02:59:19 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #198 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Reading etc. (Michael Koblic) 2. English Boxing (Ollie Batts) 3. Arnisadors to fight in local contest (Eskrima-FMA) 4. Re: Reading etc. (Steve Ames) 5. Anyone else see the Bill O'Reilly segment on the UFC (Tom) 6. Re: Anyone else see the Bill O'Reilly segment on the UFC (Jared Dame) 7. Re: Attack In Convenient Store (S. H. Wee) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:25:23 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Reading etc. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net " Perhaps men are so focussed on their work or have pressure from their work that they do not have the time to read a novel." I really do not buy this. If you genuinely want to do something you find time. If it is low on your priority list, well, that is another matter. This does not just apply to reading but to many other activities including exercise (I have heard the above or similar excuse associated with exercise more than with anything else). One of the rarely mentioned bars to reading in the Western World is the ever-rising price of books. In our town we no longer have any dedicated book stores (not counting the shelves in local supermarkets). When we had a garage sale last weekend, however, the best selling items (after used tennis balls) were books. A retrospective "eyeball survey" showed most of the buyers to be women. Interpret it as you will... If it helps Tuhon McGrath, I am re-reading Len Deighton (Winter, Game, Set, Match, Hook, Line, Sinker, Faith...Hope and Charity to come) after 20 years. I did not appreciate it first time round. It is a spy fiction with more literary qualities than I could grasp when I was young...er :-) For historical fiction it is hard to beat Bernard Cornwell. Michael Koblic, Campbell River, BC --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:07:02 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] English Boxing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I'm afraid that the answers to questions lay with the 'F' word again - or more precisely, four 'F' words: Fashion; Fencing; Function, and Form. What should be remembered and considered is that many early teachers of Pugilism/Boxing were often better known as teachers weaponry. Take Figg, the self-proclaimed first Champion of Boxing, for example. He was more noted for his prowess with a cudgel and Quarterstaff than he was with his fists. With that being the case, when the argument raged in Fencing circles as to which was more deadly - the edge or the point - they even went so far as to try to adapt their way of thinking to punching. The instructors who believed the point of their swords to be more deadly reasoned that a Boxer should stand upright, with his head thrown back and his arms out in front. They should then throw rapier-like thrusting blows, mainly with the front hand, whilst parrying their opponent's blows with the other hand and arm. If you read Owen Swift's book, 'The Handbook to Boxing - Being a Complete Instructor in the Art of Self-Defence' (actually written and published by his friend Renton Nicholson, in 1840), you will see that Swift derides the earlier 'Old School' in favour of the 'New School' form. The book shows an example of both forms, and the 'Old School' position looks far more like that which is seen in the ring nowadays. Swift also poured scorn on what he called 'half-arm hitting' (bent-arm punches like hooks and uppercuts). When the overly-long Spanish rapier was fashionable (a cutlass didn't quite go quite as well with the rather elegant attire worn at the time) it soon became apparent that the weapon was very formidable - but only if you could keep your opponent at distance. That was also true of straight punching in Boxing - and it's still true today of course. The problem is, once an opponent is able to get past the point of the rapier they can overcome its deadliness. Hence the fact that they soon adopted the carrying of a much shorter blade to compliment the rapier. Boxers soon found that the straight punch was good as long as they could keep their opponent at long range. In the early day, Boxers tended to fight toe-to-toe, and it was thought rather unmanly (cowardly) to dance around in the ring. As soon as footwork became more acceptable, they soon found a need to rediscover their short-range artillery again. I personally don't believe that Filipino Panantukan played any part (certainly not in Europe anyway) in changing the 'New School' back to the 'Old school'. Certain people had different theories about fighting. They argued and reasoned a bit with others who thought differently, they tried it one way, changed it a bit, adapted this and that, much in the same way that martial artist continue to do today. Where Boxing is specifically concerned, Boxers come in different shapes and sizes and most have slightly different styles of fighting in the ring anyway. Leonard is Leonard, Ali is Ali, Frazier and Foreman were all unique with their own unique style - just to give four examples Pugil Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 20:36:37 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Q To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] English boxing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Re: English Boxing and the historical timeline posted. I think what is interesting and what I would like to hear more about is if anyone has any comments about how FMA panantukan etc... influenced europe by way of Spain or other conquering nations. How did we evolve from the uppercut oldstyle on guard position to the Joe Frasier one hand high one hand low (which make for a telegraphed jab), to the standard of today both hand up Sugar Ray Leonard look? I find it interesting how the oldstyle motorset uppercut look of the 1800's looks alot like transitional positions I learned in panantukan/FMA empty hands. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Torrance, Ca. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:40:41 -0700 From: Eskrima-FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Arnisadors to fight in local contest Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Friday, June 23, 2006 Arnisadors to fight in local contest Before US tourney Thirteen United States-bound arnisadors will gather on Sunday for a send-off competition at the Cebu Coliseum. The stickfighters will compete in the 9th World Eskrima Kali Arnis Federation (Wekaf) Championship in Orlando, Florida on July 2. The team will be presented in a short program before the competition takes place. Competing in tournament are members of the Philippine team and fighters from different colleges and universities. Special guests Spearheading the special guests during the program is Dionisio Caņete, Wekaf International chairman emeritus, City Mayor Tomas Osmeņa, Vice-Mayor Michael Rama and University of Cebu president Augusto Go. Some of the stickfighters were given visas by the US Embassy recently. Wekaf USA head Tom Sipin, in a letter to Osmeņa, said that the presence of Filipino fighters in the competition is significant for "without Filipinos, the event could never be called a real world championship in this traditional Filipino martial art." Heading the delegation is Cebu City Sports Commission vice chairman Raul Alcoseba with Michael Caņete as deputy chief of mission. Other members of the delegation are team manager Edsel Galeos, head coach Bernard Ricablanca, Dr. Marnelli Bragat, convention delegate Maria Cristina Mendoza, finance officer Grace Galeos and arbiter Victor Tiu. (MCB) --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:33:07 -0400 From: Steve Ames To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Reading etc. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Wed, Jun 21, 2006 at 11:25:23PM -0700, Michael Koblic wrote: > One of the rarely mentioned bars to reading in the Western World is the > ever-rising price of books. In our town we no longer have any dedicated > book stores (not counting the shelves in local supermarkets). When we had a > garage sale last weekend, however, the best selling items (after used > tennis balls) were books. A retrospective "eyeball survey" showed most of > the buyers to be women. Interpret it as you will... Libraries are your friend. Plenty of good books there usually. If I buy a book and it doesn't rate at least a 'B' for me I toss it in the book return at my local library. Sometimes they shelf it sometimes they sell it. Either way. Support your library. Books are essentially free as are most newspapers and periodicals. I read voraciously. I really like David Weber currently WRT fiction. -steve --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:29:31 -0400 From: Tom To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Subject: [Eskrima] Anyone else see the Bill O'Reilly segment on the UFC Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Last night, Wednesday, on the Fox News Bill O'Reilly show there was a segment on the UFC and whether it should be banned in the US. Bill's guests were Rich Franklin and Dana White. I felt like Rich Franklin, a former school teacher, did a good job of defending the UFC whereas Dana was given very little time and could only quote the lack of serious injuries or deaths in the UFC. Dana tried to make the point that boxing is more dangerous. Rich commented that before becoming a school teacher he was an amateur boxer. Bill O'Reilly had a study out of England that stated there is a higher percentage of concussions in the UFC events than boxing and therefore based his conclusion about banning the UFC on that study. So, is the UFC safer than boxing? Should it be banned. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:44:07 -0600 From: "Jared Dame" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Anyone else see the Bill O'Reilly segment on the UFC Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At least in the UFC rules of engagement you will be able escape a really good striker but taking them to the ground and I would bet money that if a study was done on the number of concusions that happen from the ground even in a ground and pound situation. Also the referees stop fights once someone cannot defend themselves, whereas in boxing you sit there round after round taking punishment and as long as you don't fall down or get knocked out the ref does nothing for you. Thats a bunch of crap and it stinks of money ... someone ... somewhere ... isn't getting paid by the UFC commission and now wants to take revenge! Jared On 6/22/06, Tom wrote: > > Last night, Wednesday, on the Fox News Bill O'Reilly show there was a > segment on the UFC and whether it should be banned in the US. > > Bill's guests were Rich Franklin and Dana White. I felt like Rich > Franklin, a former school teacher, did a good job of defending the UFC > whereas Dana was given very little time and could only quote the lack of > serious injuries or deaths in the UFC. Dana tried to make the point > that boxing is more dangerous. Rich commented that before becoming a > school teacher he was an amateur boxer. > > Bill O'Reilly had a study out of England that stated there is a higher > percentage of concussions in the UFC events than boxing and therefore > based his conclusion about banning the UFC on that study. > > So, is the UFC safer than boxing? Should it be banned. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > -- Jared Dame jareddame@gmail.com "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." Rene Descartes --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:40:23 +0800 From: "S. H. Wee" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Attack In Convenient Store Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Somehing for discussion. The shop owner survived the knife attacks mms://www4.21cn.com/media/t_media/top/0605/19/sharen2.wmv S. H. Wee shinhoe@pc.jaring.my --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest