Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2006 03:03:50 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #201 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. info on Floro Villabrille (jay de leon) 2. Re: info on Floro Villabrille (Ray) 3. O'Reilly And the UFC (Edward Charbonneau) 4. Panatukan & Western boxing (sidney525@aol.com) 5. 'accidentally' (1@msfencing.org) 6. rapier realities (Marc MacYoung) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 23:57:00 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] info on Floro Villabrille Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I received an email from a lady calling herself Anne Villabrille, from Daanbantayan, Cebu. The name on her email address shows Anna Lyn Booc. She claims she is the granddaughter of Floro Villabrille, and she is looking for Floro Villabrille's son who she believes lives in Hawaii. I am surmising she got my email address from my articles at WorldBlackBelt, since she sent her email to my email address there. Can somebody help her out, or can somebody point me in the right direction to continue the search? Thanks, Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] info on Floro Villabrille To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 09:45:33 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I received an email from a lady calling herself Anne Villabrille, from > Daanbantayan, Cebu. The name on her email address shows Anna Lyn Booc. > She claims she is the granddaughter of Floro Villabrille, and she is looking > for Floro Villabrille's son who she believes lives in Hawaii. Has she already contacted the Largusa's (Ben or Lindsey or Jerry) or Mel Lopez? Or there is a Ralph Villabrille on Hauaala Road in Kapaa, HI. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 10:18:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Edward Charbonneau To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] O'Reilly And the UFC Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I thought Dana did a really lousy job of defending MMA. He came across as mean and combative. He did not explain very well the differences between boxing and the UFC. A really poor job of communication for the CEO of the UFC. He needs to prepare much better and site different studies to validate his point. Franklin did a much better job as a practitioner explaining what he feels about the sport. This was a good opportunity to get the point across to millions of non MMA fans that MMA is safe, too bad Dana blew it. He has to realize that octogon mentality does not translate to the press and politics. You have to use tact and persuasion not force. Trying to say Ali was not effected by boxing was a big mistake as no one watching believed him. Hopefully he will learn something and get it right next time. Ed --------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 13:41:23 -0400 From: sidney525@aol.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Panatukan & Western boxing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net In reference to Panatukan's influence in Western boxing, Guro Nate Defensor and I published an article a couple of years ago in Rapid Journal in reference to the subject. Especially focusing on the hand positioning, head movement, and overall stance, we felt it was highly coincidental that Western boxing changed so rapidly and started to resemble Panatukan, say from the 1890's to the 1920's, which is the exact time when the U.S. entered the Philippines. So while I would agree with Eric that many times human ingenuity is responsible for similarities in grappling systems and weapon designs in different parts of the world, in this case I would go with a Filipino influence on Western boxing. But bottom line, these are 2 theories, and nobody documented this either way at the time (100 years ago), so we will probably never know for sure. Sid ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: <1@msfencing.org> To: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:57:00 -0500 Organization: Mississippi Academy of Arms Subject: [Eskrima] 'accidentally' Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just read this one, thought I'd pass it along. ---- BEIJING (Reuters) Jun 20, 2006 A Chinese woman has been charged with accidentally killing her husband with a sword after he refused to make her dinner, the Shanghai Daily said on Tuesday. Police said Tang Xiaowan, 25, who has been practicing swordsmanship since she was young, had often forced her husband of three years at swordpoint to carry out her demands. On March 3, her husband, Li Weidong, refused to cook dinner because he was late for work. Police said Tang picked up her sword and put it on Li's chest and promptly slipped, stabbing Li by mistake. Li died in hospital from loss of blood ---- Blessings, Rez "Standing guard on old, forgotten roads, that no one travels anymore." The Fencing Master, by Arturo Perez Rez Johnson, M d'A Headmaster: Mississippi Academy of Arms President: United States Traditional Fencing Association Certified Fencing Instructor: (USTFA, TFI, AAI, USFCA) Certified Fencing Master Apprentice: (USTFA, USFCA) Teaching Classical Fencing and Historical Swordsmanship since 1980 Modern Sport Fencing Coach from 1980 - 2002 Teaching cane fighting in Mississippi since 1999 Authorized Goju-Shorei Weapons System Instructor since 2004 Mississippi Academy of Arms P.O. Box 955 Pelahatchie, MS 39145-0955 E-Mail: 1@MSFencing.org Academy Website: http://MSFencing.org USTFA Website: http://TraditionalFencing.org --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:24:15 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] rapier realities Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>The problem is, once an opponent is able to get past the point of the >>rapier >>they can overcome its deadliness. Hence the fact that they soon adopted >>the >>carrying of a much shorter blade to compliment the rapier. Ummmm... yes, no, kinda sorta. Remember that the rapier was not a battlefield weapon, but a personal one for civilian use. It couldn't penetrate plate armour. It didn't have the reach of a pike. Nor could it withstand/stop a blow from either halberd, greatsword (svihander) or war hammer/mace. Those were the tools necessary to stop a man-at-arms on the battle field. However as a personal weapon, especially in hallways and narrow streets of Europe, the rapier was an excellent weapon in dangerous period. Yet also a period where weapons were commonly and openly worn. Remember that the rapier was designed to be effective against a particular style of clothing consisiting of multiple layers of varying thickness material and padding. (peascod doublets, puff and slashed sleeves, etc). This made slashing and hacking weapons less effective. As it was explained to me, "Imagine trying to cut through ten layers of Levis." The development of the rapier and "small sword" came about because a narrow stabbing tip punched through this kind of clothing, while often slashing and hacking didn't (think of trying to chop through a pillow placed on a foam mattress). Against someone clothed in this manner, the edge wasn't that effective. Having said that, in situations where men (and occassionally women) dueled in shirtsleeves remember that you're facing, in essence, a three foot long razor blade, the edge was sharp. Shirt sleeves were like wearing t-shirts or other light clothing commonly found in hotter, more tropical enviornments. In other words they weren't that much protection. Now you're dealing with the complications so well known in the FMA, where you can get cut in all kinds of ways. As such, the edge was just as much of a threat as the tip. The draw cut and the gouge were very common tactics, especially against the limbs. While Western fighters didn't call it defanging the snake, they certainly knew how to slit its throat. Which incidentally was a way around the clothing, slicing any exposed skin. The angles, parrying and deflection of rapier use are incredible in their complexity and deviousness. The terminology is vastly different than that of the FMA, but the art and science of western fencing was very advanced. You had a lot of steel to get past than just the tip because the whole blade was used. In doing that, even if you got past the tip, he still had lots to defend with. In addition, controlling range and footwork was an integral part of Western swordsmanship. Getting past the tip was often a little harder to do in practice than in theory as it kept on moving back and forth. You used boxers as an example. If you've ever gone up against one you'll know how much of a hassle getting past someone who knows how to control range. Yes, it happened. The shorter blades were as much offensive as defensive. In an offensive methodology -- especially if the guy you are facing didn't have a dagger of his own -- you cleared his sword with yours and entered to stab him with yours. Of course you could do the same if you entered in from the outside gate. This second layer of offense made it far more risky for someone to come charging in as your post suggests. On a defensive front, the shorter blade also served a secondary, closer, line of defense if your opponent's blade got past your longer one you could still parry it with the shorter one. In addition, it was used to bind and trap your opponent's blade -- often after you had guided his thrust towards it. This allowed you to use your longer weapon. So the rapier had more application than just the thrust and the shorter blades in combo with rapiers had more use and application than most people know about. M --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest