Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:28:17 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #215 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Excellent Post Marc! (Ollie Batts) 2. Hi James (Ollie Batts) 3. Doce Pares Semnar on Staten Island - Sat July 15th (Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness) 4. Re: Short Sword and Machete Use (Ollie Batts) 5. Re: New Member (iPat) 6. Re: Stick fighting champion Postman (Gabriel rafael) 7. Re: New Member (Michael Gallagher) 8. whips (Phil Dante-Ipino) 9. Re: whips (Jonathan Kessler) 10. RE: whips (Joseph Marana) 11. Technically speaking (Marc MacYoung) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 09:47:04 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Excellent Post Marc! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This was a really excellent post by Marc. It contained some important points (Oops! Please excuse the pun) that should be re-read by all: "Actually, I know you said this in jest, but there is an issue that I routinely address. A number of years ago a "friend" in silat slid one in on me. He said that a line out of Mask of Zorro described me to a "T." Antonio Bandaras is wildly swinging a sword around and Anthony Hopkins asks: Do you know how to use that thing? Bandaras replies "Yes, you put the pointy end into the other guy" Hopkins sighs and says "I see we have a lot of work to do" "Okay, the guy meant it as a subtle insult about my lack of skill in the < begin celestial chorus> art of silat . Which hey, fair enough, I'm not that proficient in the "art," never have been, never will be. However, a few years later some players had seriously insulted me. Now technically speaking these guys were far better at their art than I was. But they had enraged me to the point of a black rage (a cold draconian and murderous fury). Thing was, facing someone who was not only more than happy to kill them on the spot, but die doing it ... they decided that when it really came down to it they weren't willing to stake their lives on exactly how deadly and effective that art really was. Instead of drawing on their "warrior art" they wisely drew on Miss Manners and apologized for their misconduct. "From these two events something clarified in my thinking. Something that I had long sensed but could never quite put my finger on. And that is Bandaras' comment is that of either a total amateur or a master. In both cases, the person's goal is to put the pointy end into the other guy. And that is what he is going to do... come hell or high water. The "art" just helps you do it better and more effectively. In my life I have seen the terrible effectiveness of someone who remembers the pointy end issue. I also have seen countless examples of people who get so hung up in the details and technicalities of an art/system/drill that they forget this rock bottom goal. And in doing so, they leave themselves wide open to someone whose only goal is to put the pointy end where it belongs. "As those two so perfectly exemplified, a lot of people mistake both focusing on, and possessing, the technical components for having what it takes to do it. The art/system/drill is a means to achieve a goal, it isn't the goal itself. As I said, both of those guys were, technically speaking, far superior martial artists to me, but when confronted with someone more concerned with inserting the pointy end they realized that technical details alone weren't enough to save them. "Technical details ARE important. But don't get so caught up in technicalities that you fail to achieve the goal. "It's something you see in the martial arts and in the business world ALL the time, someone gets so wrapped up in the technical details that they lose sight of the goal. With this in mind take a new look at what the purpose and value of drills are and see if they are actually interfering with -- instead of helping you achieve -- your goals." M McY Pugil --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:10:43 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Hi James Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi James, I wondered if it was you on the list. Thanks for the comments, but I don't really regard (or call) myself 'Master'. And I certainly wouldn't if I spelt my name as you did, rather than as it is, i.e. 'Batts'. ;o) Best wishes, Ollie Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 07:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: James Thornton To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RapidoRealisimo Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the info,Im currently working with Master Shamim Haque in theKalis Ilustrisimo System,and Im currently teaching Doce Pares Escrima under GrandMaster Danny Guba,and I owe that Thanks to Master OIllie Bates. James Thornton --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:14:57 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Doce Pares Semnar on Staten Island - Sat July 15th Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Conquest Athletics Inc. is hosting a Doce Pares workshop with Master Don Edwards Saturday July 15th from 10 am to 2 pm. Covered will be stickfighting drills, blade & empty hand applications. Contact: Sifu FRANCISCO VAZQUEZ Conquest Athletics 552 Port Richmond Ave Staten Island, NY 10302 718-420-1040 FLV79@hotmail.com Thanks --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:06:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Short Sword and Machete Use From: Ollie Batts To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Re: [Eskrima] Short Sword and Machete Use 1/4 inch aluminium bar stock, small metal craft saw (or better still, a band saw), some files (or electric bench grinder), a drill (it makes it easier to attach the cord to the handle through a couple of holes), a length of nylon or polyester cord (black para-cord is good), and a little time and effort. Pugil --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:04:54 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] New Member Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Patrick, welcome to the digest On 7/10/06, Patrick Pace wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > Just wanted to drop a quick line and introduce myself to everyone. > > -- > Pat Davies > www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 07:18:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Gabriel rafael Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Stick fighting champion Postman To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Congratulations Mike Turk and Ernie Gonzales. I was an eye witness to this excellent WEKAF fighters. Mabuhay FMA! --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:24:05 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Michael Gallagher Subject: Re: [Eskrima] New Member Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At 03:31 PM 7/10/2006, you wrote: >Hi Everyone, > >Just wanted to drop a quick line and introduce myself to everyone. My name >is Patrick Pace and i am an ex pat English guy living in Burbank, >CA...Just started training at the Magda Institute under Guro Cass Magda, >and loving every minute of it. I have trained in martial arts before >attaining black belts in American Kenpo, Kickboxing, Japanese Karate and >Certified instructor in Muay Thai....however I have fallen in love with >Kali/JKD and Silat.... > >I can honestly say I can see myself studying Kali for the rest of my life... > > >Anyways...thats the end of my broadcast...LOL...I am looking forward to >exploring Kali and learning from this group. > >Thanks > >Patrick Pace >_ Welcome aboard! >______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Phil Dante-Ipino" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:44:16 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] whips Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have read the "Filipino Fighting Whip" and was wondering if anyone knows of a good training whip for under $100. dollars usd? _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:13:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Kessler Subject: Re: [Eskrima] whips To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yes and no. Trust me, and I am essentially a cheap and frugal human being, the difference in the whip you'll get for $200-300 is, for your training and development, huge. The Latigo y Daga whip from Peter Jack is so entirely worth the cost difference, it's unbelievable. You can make do with a good nylon whip from a good Florida whip maker like Rhett Kelly, Joe Driver, or Steve Koliski and get by for about $100. But you'd do much better to go with the Peter Jack. It is pretty much a waste of money to get a leather whip for less than $100. I did it for my first whip. It was in fact a waste of money. If you're going to go cheap, go nylon. If you're really interested in the whip, go with a good kangaroo whip. Put it this way. I'd be pissed if you took my nylon whips. But if you messed with my Peter Jack whip, I'd have to come find you and whup yer ass ;-) Peter Jack - http://www.thewhipman.co.nz/ Rhett Kelly - http://www.cowwhips.com/ Joe Driver - http://www.joescustomwhips.com/ Steve Koliski - http://www.21stcenturywhips.com/ Joe Strain makes great whips, too, but they're a bit pricier than Peter's. JK Phil Dante-Ipino wrote: I have read the "Filipino Fighting Whip" and was wondering if anyone knows of a good training whip for under $100. dollars usd? _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:02:38 -0700 From: "Joseph Marana" Subject: RE: [Eskrima] whips To: Cc: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Try Rhett Kelley at www.cowwhips.com. He makes high quality nylon whips for $12.50 - 14 per foot. The turnaround time may vary however, as he and the other makers often go through periods where they are saturated with orders. I have ordered several whips through a student of his (who is not currently taking orders) and they are excellent. Joe -----Original Message----- From: Phil Dante-Ipino [mailto:wieldsastick@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:44 AM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] whips I have read the "Filipino Fighting Whip" and was wondering if anyone knows of a good training whip for under $100. dollars usd? _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:58:21 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Technically speaking Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mike wrote > Aaaargh! All I was trying to do was have a pleasant academic discourse on > a > very small albeit important fragment of martial arts with someone who can > not only do it but who has thought about it and can articulate it. I recognized that and I was planning to address the technical aspects in another post. (Things have been somewhat hectic here abouts). I thought an observation about "getting too caught up in the techincal aspects" was a point to make before we dove headlong into a technical conversation. A "folks this is important, but it isn't everything" perspective so to speak. Which I apologize for using your words as such -- especially because you did say them in jest -- but as I have seen people with the opinion that "attitude is everything," I've also seen the opposite extreme that the technique/style is what matters. And how if you know (fill in the blank) a person is magically instilled with everything they need to know and do This > should be as far from insult as anything and I am glad you understood it > as > such. Yes it was. And I did. > For some reason one can have these discussions with golf or tennis > players and these issues never raise their angry head, but try it in MA > and > all hell breaks loose. We're on the same page here. My intent was to cut that off at the pass -- not from you BTW -- by pointing out that that while technical aspects are very important, they are only one dish of a meal. A full and balanced meal consists of multible dishes providing different elements. Using your point and the balance meal analogy, the MA seem to be rift with individuals who love to argue not only for single dish meals, but then ferociously battle over which is the best recipe. That is NOT a balanced meal. And you're right, I've never seen that behavior in golf. > I am sorry you had a bad experience. I will not ask > if the silat guys met with an untimely accident some months later...:-) Nope. There are basically two types of Scots. With both if you piss them off you've made an enemy for life. The difference is with the first you've made an enemy for your great-great-great grandchildrens' lives. These are the grudge holders. The other, the rest of your life is going to be about 30 seconds. While I am one of the latter, if someone makes it to 35 seconds, then they are generally safe (I'm not a grudge holder). The willingness to accept apologies and to admit that I could have been wrong has really helped me disfuse my temper. As for those guys, it was a whole lot easier for me to walk away from that school and remove the chance for them to misbehave again. > The way I look at it is this: Steven Hawking would probably explain the > physics of the power punch in terms of science so much better than I ever > could. On the other hand I am fairly certain that I can hit harder than > Steven Hawking. This, however, does not invalidate his explanations... *gasp sputter* Would you mind not doing that when I'm drinking coffee? > Back to the discourse, if I may, your point above is presumably identical > to > Bruce Lee's famous "punch is just a punch" speech. Which he lifted wholesale from the Zen Buddhism teacup saying BTW... > Talking about putting the pointy end into the other guy, the classical > fencing teach that you should increase the complexity of your attacks > gradually if you do not know your opponent - simple attack, disengage, > beat, > beat and disengage and so on. A beginner will not appreciate the beauty of > your beautiful 4-component attack and skewer you with a simple straight > riposte. Have you ever seen the movie "The Duelist"? It is an interesting study of what can happen if you are "caught" within a system. It takes place during the Napoleonic Era and it is about one man being stalked by a lunatic. Thing is, as a soldier he is caught within the code of honor, so for 20 years everytime this madman challenges him to a duel, he HAS to fight him. During this time period dueling had advanced to the point where you couldn't walk up and cap a downed/wounded opponent. (Shooting him in the back in a dark alley was also considered non-kosher). So they keep on wounding each other, but never quite succeed in killing each other...which sets up the next duel. The movie was directed by Ridley Scott and the fight choreography was done by William Hobbes, which makes it a win-win in my book, even though it moves with European movie slowness of pace. In one of the duels a shortsword thrust by the lunatic pierces the hero's chest, yet bounces off a rib -- thereby ending that duel without death. Although it doesn't show it in the movie, it tells of it in the book. And that is "By all rules of fencing" the wacko's lunge starts from the wrong lead foot. This change in angulation and unexpectedness of his attack is what allows for his blade to slide through and stab the hero. Both are experienced swordsmen and combat vets and yet, when the technically-off-the-wall happens, the hero gets stabbed. And that is something that people need to seriously stop and consider in regard to their training. I mean how many of us have learned the hard way NOT to hand a first-time student a stick and tell him to try to hit us? C'mon, be honest, how many people reading this have done the "owie dance" because someone -- to quote Jim Carey -- "Like all beginners you attacked me wrong?" The simple reason for this event is NOT because the senior practiticioner is inept. My suspicion is that what has happened is that there has been an emphasis on certain technical details of both attack and defense that are indigenous to a particular school. In time what you end up with is an "evolution" of sorts where people are taught to attack a certain way and in turn, the defenses evolve to handle those specific types of attacks...to the exclusion of other types of attacks. Let's say that you have a block that is designed to work against a certain angle of attack, as long as the attacker is, say 5 degrees in either direction the block works. But an amateur doesn't know that he has to attack in that 10 degree ranges and his swing is 15 degrees off. *THWACK!* One of my BIG "Danger Will Robinson! Danger!" points is that an experienced attacker won't attack you with the level of overcommitment (hence momentum) as an untrained attacker. Therefore the physics are different... and unfortunately, a whole lot of defenses out there are predicated on handling the physics of a skilled attacker, thereby leaving you exposed to the physics of an untrained attacker. Now let's take that to a different level. How many people have had the experience of going to another school/system and suddenly discovering that what you knew didn't work so hot? It worked great back in the old school, but until you start putting on that schools tweaks onto what you are doing, their attacks get through? It isn't that the previous system "SUCKED" as many frustrated student's might think, it's because of this evolution in small technical details. And this arguably to the point of losing sight of the bigger idea of covering an entire vector instead of a specific angle. Think of niche evolution and you can begin to see the parallels. M --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest