Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 17:42:19 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #218 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Technically speaking (Michael Koblic) 2. Non-weapon hand (Ollie Batts) 3. Bob Spour: movie clip (iPat) 4. Re: Non-weapon hand (iPat) 5. whips (rob mulligan) 6. Re: Non-weapon hand (Ray) 7. Re: Team RP at Worlds (Allan Talusan) 8. Re: Non-weapon hand (Mike Casto) 9. Pedoy eskrima (Eskrima-FMA) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Michael Koblic" To: "Eskrima digest" Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 22:47:46 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Technically speaking Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Marc MacYoung wrote: "There are basically two types of Scots. With both if you piss them off you've made an enemy for life. The difference is with the first you've made an enemy for your great-great-great grandchildrens' lives. These are the grudge holders." ***Aye, that would explain why there are not many MacDonalds living in Campbell River :-) "> Bruce Lee's famous "punch is just a punch" speech. Which he lifted wholesale from the Zen Buddhism teacup saying BTW..." ***Ah, now I am in deep water. Nothing to do with one hand clapping? "Have you ever seen the movie "The Duelist"? It is an interesting study of what can happen if you are "caught" within a system. It takes place during the Napoleonic Era and it is about one man being stalked by a lunatic. Thing is, as a soldier he is caught within the code of honor, so for 20 years everytime this madman challenges him to a duel, he HAS to fight him. During this time period dueling had advanced to the point where you couldn't walk up and cap a downed/wounded opponent. (Shooting him in the back in a dark alley was also considered non-kosher). So they keep on wounding each other, but never quite succeed in killing each other...which sets up the next duel. The movie was directed by Ridley Scott and the fight choreography was done by William Hobbes, which makes it a win-win in my book, even though it moves with European movie slowness of pace." ***I have seen this many years ago and not in its entirety. Probably time to see it again with new eyes. William Hobbes is the realist as opposed to Bob Anderson who is more of a stylist? I believe the latter did the Banderas movie you mentioned (Zorro). "In one of the duels a shortsword thrust by the lunatic pierces the hero's chest, yet bounces off a rib -- thereby ending that duel without death. Although it doesn't show it in the movie, it tells of it in the book. And that is "By all rules of fencing" the wacko's lunge starts from the wrong lead foot. This change in angulation and unexpectedness of his attack is what allows for his blade to slide through and stab the hero. Both are experienced swordsmen and combat vets and yet, when the technically-off-the-wall happens, the hero gets stabbed." ***That is interesting. Anthony DeLongis teaches sabre attacks both in the conventional lunge and "on the pass" with the "wrong" leg leading (see Cold Steel video "Fighting with sabre and cutlass"). It felt awkward to me when I tried it but then I realized that his method is not constrained by the 6-foot wide piste. Also, in current sports fencing that move would be illegal. "How many people have had the experience of going to another school/system and suddenly discovering that what you knew didn't work so hot?" ***Ha! That is if you are allowed to take it there! One of the difficulties I have had in the past is just that - trying out stuff from one dojo in another dojo. It is generally frowned upon probably for the reasons that you alluded to above. It is a rare group that will allow you to bring your stuff and have a go against theirs in an open and experimental manner. In the past, to experiment one had to draft one's relatives and family with occasional embarassing results such as you have described (like one's wife getting the first cut in in the knife fight). It must be 40 years since I last read the "Three musketeers" but the one sentence that sticks in my mind is "The sword hit from a tyro hurts just as much as one from the master". Safer to stick to theory... Michael Koblic, Campbell River, BC --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:57:12 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Non-weapon hand Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net wrote: "...he got excited and came at me with a thrust to my face; the only reason I avoided it is because my alive hand reacted, and not in a asthetically pleasing, technical way. We started laughing, and I told him, "That's why you keep your other, nonweaponed hand on your chest!" Although I used to keep my left hand on my chest, when I started training with Doce Pares Grandmaster Danny Guba, I soon found out that keeping my left hand up and slightly out to the left side of my face was a far less painful position for it to be held. So my question to the Digest is: How do the rest of you feel about this? Does everyone believe that they should keep their non-weapon hand on their chest? 'Keep' suggests 'always' to me. When practising strike, block and counter strike (ABCedario) type drills, for example, the so-called 'Alive hand' can very easily and quickly become the 'Dead hand' I've found. Pugil --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:40:19 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Bob Spour: movie clip Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net just like to share with you some clips of my Thai instructor Bob Spour new dvds. I think you will enjoy. BTW, jamie ended up with a fractured skull as a result of the filming. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOTwg_YXYy0 For those in the UK, Bob will be teaching at a camp in October along with Ajarn Chai and Sifu Marc McFann. Contact me for details. -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:20:19 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Non-weapon hand Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net My 'non stick' hand moves, almost in counterbalance. The training for this came from Victor Gendrano of the Inosanto Academy and was reinforced during a private with Marc Denny. After that i started to notice i was being taught that all the time but that the penny had never dropped! Still trying to find the penny - comes from living in Scotland this long!! ; ) On 7/14/06, Ollie Batts wrote: > > wrote: > > > So my question to the Digest is: How do the rest of you feel about this? > Does everyone believe that they should keep their non-weapon hand on their > chest? 'Keep' suggests 'always' to me. When practising strike, block and > counter strike (ABCedario) type drills, for example, the so-called 'Alive > hand' can very easily and quickly become the 'Dead hand' I've found. -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "rob mulligan" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:42:03 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] whips Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Though not the same as the whips in this discussion, I have to give a plug for the whips made by my student, Jose Capitulo.  They are hand made by Jose, and are exact replicas of the whips used by the the “calesa” drivers in Luzon.  They are wound tapered rope with knots tied within the last foot or so of the whip and have the wire and thread wrapped rattan handles.  He stiffens the rope with a marine shellac to make them as stiff or as pliable as the user wants.   I have several original “calesa” whips brought back to me from the RP over the past twenty or so years, and his are indistinguishable from the originals. These are the real deal.   Jose is on the digest and is easily contacted.    Rob Mulligan WWW.KWIKSTIK.COM                           --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Non-weapon hand To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Although I used to keep my left hand on my chest, when I started training > with Doce Pares Grandmaster Danny Guba, I soon found out that keeping my > left hand up and slightly out to the left side of my face was a far less > painful position for it to be held. > > So my question to the Digest is: How do the rest of you feel about this? > Does everyone believe that they should keep their non-weapon hand on their > chest? 'Keep' suggests 'always' to me. When practising strike, block and > counter strike (ABCedario) type drills, for example, the so-called 'Alive > hand' can very easily and quickly become the 'Dead hand' I've found. When a student first starts having them keep their hand on their chest is an easy thing for them to remember and learn. Then later we have them slightly adjust the position of the live hand based on stance, position of the opponent and the opponent's weapon, etc. So it ends up floating a bit, slightly in front of the chest, but moving closer to the left ear (assuming a right handed student) or closer to the right side of the neck based on what the opponent is doing. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:42:02 -0700 From: "Allan Talusan" To: Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Team RP at Worlds Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Having watched that team fight against the Germans, it was truly a great match. Team fights are 3 60 second blitzes and what the article didn't reflect was that in round on the filipino was struck in the shin (illegal strike) and stopped for an injury time out and then continued. In the second round, the filipino fighting that round was struck in the back of the head near the neck with a legal curbada strike (I think) but took an injury time out and then continued as well. It was one of the highlights of the tournament for sure! Allan Talusan ___________________________________________________________ $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. Signup at www.doteasy.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:40:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Non-weapon hand To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I agree completely. The way we teach is that we start with hand on chest because it's better there than dangling at their side (which, for some reason, is what people tend to do with it). Once they get used to keeping it up then we encourage them to experiment with other options as "home base" ... but we always emphasize that it's never completely static. It's always "alive" and ready to jump in to do it's part. And, of course, when you start playing with espada y daga, holding the hand against the chest can be exceedingly dangerous since it can put the blade near your throat or the brachial artery in your other arm (depending on specifically how you hold the blade). There is a lot of material, though, that is done early in training that changes later in training. Sometimes it's a training tool - like training wheels on a bicycle - and once the student gets beyond the need for them, they become a hinderance have to be taken off. Other times, we start with the "ideal" option so that the student gets a lot of rep on it and it feels completely comfortable to them. After that, then we can start bringing in other options and explaining/exploring *when* those other options are viable (or even preferrable). I look at "hand on chest" as a litle of both of these types. If it's installed in the student but never removed (i.e.: allowed to find it's own place) then, like the training wheels, it can become detrimental. Then other options - like hand chambered around hip for drawing a secondary weapon or whatever - should come into play. But the student has to understand that *wherever* s/he places that hand, it should be intentional and not arbitrary. It's there for a reason. Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: Ollie Batts To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 5:57:12 AM Subject: [Eskrima] Non-weapon hand wrote: "...he got excited and came at me with a thrust to my face; the only reason I avoided it is because my alive hand reacted, and not in a asthetically pleasing, technical way. We started laughing, and I told him, "That's why you keep your other, nonweaponed hand on your chest!" Although I used to keep my left hand on my chest, when I started training with Doce Pares Grandmaster Danny Guba, I soon found out that keeping my left hand up and slightly out to the left side of my face was a far less painful position for it to be held. So my question to the Digest is: How do the rest of you feel about this? Does everyone believe that they should keep their non-weapon hand on their chest? 'Keep' suggests 'always' to me. When practising strike, block and counter strike (ABCedario) type drills, for example, the so-called 'Alive hand' can very easily and quickly become the 'Dead hand' I've found. Pugil _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:42:30 -0700 From: Eskrima-FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Pedoy eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Filipino martial art goes beyond fighting with sticks By Leila Wai Honolulu Advertiser Staff Writer PEDOY'S SCHOOL OF ESCRIMA WHAT: Fighting techniques include hand-to-hand, hand-against-weapon, stick-against-stick, double-stick fighting, dumog (Filipino grappling) and Panantukan (Filipino boxing) Derobio style has incorporated various styles of fighting within its system, keeping its foundation on its original bladed movements. It emphasizes disarming techniques and defensive behaviors rather than aggressive actions. (Source: www.Pedoysescrima.com) WHERE: Filipino Community Center (94-428 Mokuola St., Waipahu). Classes coming soon in Waipi'o Gentry. WHEN: Adults—Tuesdays and Thursdays, 6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m. Sundays, 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. Children—Tuesdays, 5:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. Sundays, 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. FEE: Adults, $60 a month. Children, $30 a month INFORMATION: 678-2438 or 216-3211, E-mail gmty@pedoysescrima.com, or go to www.Pedoysescrima.com. PACIFIC ISLAND SHOWDOWN WHAT: International Invitational ultimate full contact stickfighting championship presented by Pedoy's School of Escrima WHEN: Oct. 14 and 15 WHERE: Filipino Community Center Ballroom, Waipahu INFORMATION: 678-2438 or 216-3211, E-mail gmty@pedoysescrima.com, or go to www.Pedoysescrima.com. It was nearly lost, banned because of its deadliness. Disguised in dance forms to carry on the tradition, escrima — Filipino martial arts — survived and continues to be taught to new generations. But 8-year-old Nate Roque likes it because it means fighting with sticks. "He's excited about getting ready on that day," his mother, Marie said. "He gets all of his things together (beforehand)." Escrima (pronounced eh-scream-ah) specializes in weaponry, usually with one hand holding a bladed weapon or more commonly a stick, and the other hand free. Escrima has 12 basic offensive and defensive movements, designed to disarm an opponent. "In our school, self-discipline and character development is a top priority," said Grandmaster Tyrone J. Takahashi, who teaches at Pedoy's School of Escrima. The school specializes in derobio style, which emphasizes disarming techniques and defensive behaviors rather than aggressive actions, according to its Web site. Nate is "more disciplined, he listens more and he's more alert," Marie Roque said. Although he was intimidated at first, he said it was "pretty easy" to learn. Now, the hardest part of class is the duck walk at the end of training. Takahashi also learned escrima at a young age, taking his first lessons at 5. "Going through the years, having that positive attitude, over the years it has really taken place in my life," Takahashi said. "I can see that with the training, it has brought me to different levels with my private life and business life. "It taught me how to be an effective leader and how to keep the positive values in everything I do. Aside from the teachings, that was one of the main, if not the main things I got from martials arts over the years." Takahashi added that it is important to learn the history and the culture of the Philippines, especially because escrima "went underground for 300 years (during the Spanish occupation of the Philippines). It was so deadly they had to ban it. It turned up in forms of Filipino dances. That's how they hid the art back then." Greg Leong, 38, a financial advisor from Kahalu'u, said he likes escrima so much he became a student of its history as well. "Once you get into it, you like to read about it," he said. Leong first learned and participated in escrima in 1991, and joined Pedoy's School of Escrima in December. "Unlike any other martial arts, if you have two fighters who have equal skills and equal knowledge, usually the heavier person has the advantage," Leong said. "In escrima it comes down to the skill of the person, because the stick is the equalizer." Takahashi learned escrima from his grandfather, the late Braulio Pedoy. "It's a diverse art, where you not only utilize the stick, as people think with escrima," Takahashi said. "People don't realize that it has open-hand (no weapon) techniques. In our style, the stick is an extension of the hand. "It is a very balanced art, where it can be matched up to karate, kung fu, all those disciplines of other ethnic groups. It's a very effective art." He called it a "graceful, passive art." Sarah Alegria, an 11-year-old from Waipahu, started taking escrima classes about two months ago. Her father wanted her to learn a form of martial arts for self-defense training, and one day in Mililani, she saw people "fighting with sticks," and became interested. "It's fun, and it's addicting," she said. So addicting, that she takes adult classes along with the children's classes. She picked it up easily, and although she finds some of the exercises tiring, she's grown much stronger. Leong called escrima a "good stress reliever" that gives him a "good natural high." "We train hard, and we know we're going to get exhausted for doing it," he said. "But we get a high doing it. We look forward to going to class." Leong said he likes knowing he can protect himself in almost any situation. Because of the practicality of escrima, "you can walk into any place and pick up a weapon and know how to use it. "But our master always teaches us to walk away. But once someone hits you, you have the right to defend yourself. It's all about self-control. Not bragging you know the art. It's about having the knowledge, but knowing how and when to use it. It should not be used for intimidation." GARCIA CAPTURES WORLD TITLE IN SINGLE STICK Robert Garcia, the chief instructor at the Hawai'i branch of the Bandalan Doce Pares Association, successfully defended his gold medal at the 9th World Escrima Kali Arnis Federation World Championships, July 2 to 8 in Orlando, Fla. Garcia, a Honolulu resident, won gold in the lightweight single-stick fighting division. Jdelo Dadulas, of Honolulu, earned a gold medal in the welterweight division of single-stick fighting. At the World Invitational Tournament in Orlando, which followed the World Championships, Dadulas won a gold in double-stick fighting. Ray Dela Cruz, of Pearl City, won a bronze in the cruiseweight division of single-stick fighting, also at the World Invitational Tournament. The championships are held every two years. The next competition will be in Cebu, Philippines, in 2008. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest