Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:59:47 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #220 - 3 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Hi James (James Thornton) 2. Re: Eskrima School in Eugene, Oregon (DenverAMA@aol.com) 3. Technically speaking (Marc MacYoung) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:13:11 -0700 (PDT) From: James Thornton Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Hi James To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hey Ollie! LOL ! Sorry about your name,i saw that after I sent it,How have everyone been? I think anyone who have trained as long as you have is a Master in my eyes,im sorry about that as well?I hope that we could get together again soon,Im taking my first trip to the Philippines in Nov wish me luck! take care tell everyone hello! James Thornton Ollie Batts wrote: Hi James, I wondered if it was you on the list. Thanks for the comments, but I don't really regard (or call) myself 'Master'. And I certainly wouldn't if I spelt my name as you did, rather than as it is, i.e. 'Batts'. ;o) Best wishes, Ollie Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 07:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: James Thornton To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RapidoRealisimo Eskrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the info,Im currently working with Master Shamim Haque in theKalis Ilustrisimo System,and Im currently teaching Doce Pares Escrima under GrandMaster Danny Guba,and I owe that Thanks to Master OIllie Bates. James Thornton _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: DenverAMA@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:16:55 EDT Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Eskrima School in Eugene, Oregon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kristine, Hope all is well with you, nice to see you on the forum... good luck and come back to visit soon. Heather MonDee www.denverama.com Does anyone know who is teaching at the Eskrima school located on 7th Ave. in Eugene, Oregon? My sister says there is a big sign out front advertising eskrima, but she has not been able to catch anyone on site to inquire. Thanks. Kristine Strasburger --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:40:15 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] Technically speaking Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > "> Bruce Lee's famous "punch is just a punch" speech. > > Which he lifted wholesale from the Zen Buddhism teacup saying BTW..." > > ***Ah, now I am in deep water. Nothing to do with one hand clapping? Actually, as far as I'm concerned one of Lee's greatest contributions come from his time as a philosophy major in Seattle. This allowed him to convey many Eastern philosophical concepts in a manner understandable to the Western mind. The problem is that so much of what Westerners go "oooooooh, awwwww! That's deep!" is the tip of the iceberg of various philosophical/spiritual/religious systems. Lee really did open the door to a much deeper world, but that's an opportunity that many folks have chosen not to pursue. re: the Duelists > ***I have seen this many years ago and not in its entirety. Probably time > to > see it again with new eyes. William Hobbes is the realist as opposed to > Bob > Anderson who is more of a stylist? I believe the latter did the Banderas > movie you > mentioned (Zorro). Hobbes tends to incorporate empty handed stuff, kicking, the environment and fighting from the ground with his blade work. This gells with my experience with unchoreographed sword fighting. It's more of a pell mell brawl that you use any opportunity that presents itself to get the guy. Where Anderson tends to emphasize blade to blade work. Which looks great on camera, but you get more of an impression of dancing around instead of two guys trying to kill each other. >>By all rules of fencing" the wacko's lunge starts from the wrong >> lead foot. > ***That is interesting. Anthony DeLongis teaches sabre attacks both in the > conventional lunge and "on the pass" with the "wrong" leg leading (see > Cold > Steel video "Fighting with sabre and cutlass"). It felt awkward to me when > I > tried it but then I realized that his method is not constrained by the > 6-foot wide piste. Also, in current sports fencing that move would be > illegal. Yes, when you step off the strip things take on all kinds of interesting shades of complexity. Starting with learning how to defend while your feet are all kinds of in the wrong place and his aren't. Then moving onto defending against funky angulations for when the other guy is "attacking wrong" -- like that charging pass you describe. > ***Ha! That is if you are allowed to take it there! One of the > difficulties > I have had in the past is just that - trying out stuff from one dojo in > another dojo. It is generally frowned upon probably for the reasons that > you > alluded to above. Which It is a rare group that will allow you to bring > your stuff > and have a go against theirs in an open and experimental manner. Actually, I'm going to propose that the problem is complex on several levels. First because of the conflict between new methods and old ingrained training. This leaves you doubly exposed to attack because you're unconsciously trying to do it your old way while trying to consciously force yourself to do it the new way. This leaves you more exposed and vulnerable to getting thumped because your body is hesitating and the two systems are colliding within you. They may tell you not to bring your old system in but you can't help it. Often this results in hesitations and stalls. And these allow for the practititioners of the new style to "get their licks in" and thereby *prove* the superiority of their style. Personally I've been zapped a number of times by players while trying to learn a new style's move. A move that they are relatively proficient with. I've watched in their eyes their 'counting coup," never realizing that if I were moving in my normal fashion, instead of the stilted new learning method, I could have exploited the six or so openings that they left open. And there is also commonly attempts to establish a pecking order. You as the new-commer are supposed to be "beta" to the senior students. Which if you watch closely you will often see people not only exploiting this hesitation of your responses, but adding in little extra tweaks to make you feel incompetent. Now this isn't the same thing as them coming in to trying to seriously whack you -- which would be too obvious and expose them to a similar test of their skills. But instead you will often see them addding things above and beyond the drill's/excercise's level. So there you are trying to master a different way of moving and often ending up with a hash between of two methods. In the meantime, they're throwing in all kinds of extra little sneaky Petes to show you how much better they are. This adds to making you feel more incompetent and distrustful of what you know. I mean after all, if your old style taught you how to "cover angles"then howcome his attacks are getting through? Well evolutionary specialization for one, trying to learn a different way for two, Sneaky Pete's for three and different physics for four. Then comes the school's own credibility. If they have become so evolutionarily specailized that they are no long able to function outside a specific niche, there is often an "escalation of commitment." By this I mean the common attitude of the move time and energy someone has invested in something the more that person insists it HAS to work. This is a very human reaction and is in no way limited to just the martial arts. People in all fields engage in this kind of thinking. As such, many schools/groups/individuals while actively incorporating new things (if they can be done in a safe manner), also actively resist challenges to entrenched ways of thinking/doing things. So if you come in with something that could prove itself more effective or if you come in with the intent of blowing through and zapping them, you are considered a bit of a threat. In both cases, they're really not too excited about the prospect of you revealing the weaknesses within what they are doing. So they don't want you to show what you know. This is an added level on top of showing you who is senior. Now granted that a great number of people do come to schools in order to demonstrate their superiority. (I have a friend who during a sparring match got his cheek busted by such a kid). It is indeed rude to go into a school and start showing off what you know. Realistically, you are there to learn a new style not to strut your stuff. So there is a legitimate reason for schools to say don't bring your old stuff in. But those legitimate reasons not to bring your stuff in can also be used to shield the flaws/evolutionary dead ends that have crept into a system. Issues that a savvy instructor DOESN'T want his students to find out. Nor, quite frankly, are people who have invested a lot of time and energy into learning a system -- and by extension take pride in their ranking. They are big fish in little ponds and they don't like anything that can challenge that assumption -- much less engage in activities that would reveal the flaws in their system. Therefore they stick safely inside a comfort zone, where they can tell themselves it works, but don't want to test their stuff out M --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest