Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 19:00:23 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #245 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: self defense? (Todd Ellner) 2. Justifiable excuse? (Ollie Batts) 3. RE: Self-defence? (Young Forest) 4. RE: Re: self defense? (Ken Borowiec) 5. RE: RE: Self-defence? (Ken Borowiec) 6. Re: Re: self defense? (jay de leon) 7. Re: Kicking back at the DB Gathering (Gints Klimanis) 8. A camp fire discussion on Martial Arts (Lawrence, Marc J.) 9. Re: RE: [Eskrima] Self-defence? (iPat) 10. Re: Re: knife defense (Ray) 11. Re: Re: knife defense (stephen luna) 12. Re: Self Defense? (bgdebuque) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:03:43 -0700 From: Todd Ellner To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: self defense? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >"officer I was in fear of my life." Prosecutor: "The attack had stopped. The victim was fleeing. Your Honor, this vicious thug wasn't in any sort of REASONABLE fear. He just wanted to murder his victim." Judge: "Looks that way to me." --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 17:11:38 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Justifiable excuse? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hmmm! From a man running away? That wouldn't stand up in the UK, not that we're allowed guns anyway! Pugil From: "Ken Borowiec" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net "officer I was in fear of my life." --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Young Forest" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:14:12 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Self-defence? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >From: Ollie Batts [mailto:ollie@kalifit.com] >Subject: [Eskrima] Self-defence? > >>"Mr. Blocker immediately jumped out of the jeepney but was not fast >>enough to avoid getting a 9x19 "goodbye" round in the spine." > >Interesting, but wasn't the self-defence bit over by then? So can we >assume that retribution a justifiable act nowadays? Judge, jury and >executioner eh! According to the legal definition, probably yeah, the self-defence bit was over. However, just as easily, the fleeing blocker could have been exiting the jeepney so he wasn't a sitting duck while drawing his own firearm. Evasion does not automatically equal retreat. Badger Siling Labuyo Arnis www.youngforest.ca --__--__-- Message: 4 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: self defense? Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 13:19:25 -0400 From: "Ken Borowiec" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net He was reaching for his weapon. See it was right next to his hand. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Todd Ellner [mailto:tellner@cs.pdx.edu] Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:04 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: self defense? >"officer I was in fear of my life." Prosecutor: "The attack had stopped. The victim was fleeing. Your Honor, this vicious thug wasn't in any sort of REASONABLE fear. He just wanted to murder his victim." Judge: "Looks that way to me." _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 Subject: RE: [Eskrima] RE: Self-defence? Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 13:20:28 -0400 From: "Ken Borowiec" To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Thank you. That is what I was thinking although I failed to state it. Ken -----Original Message----- From: Young Forest [mailto:young_forest@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 12:14 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] RE: Self-defence? >From: Ollie Batts [mailto:ollie@kalifit.com] >Subject: [Eskrima] Self-defence? > >>"Mr. Blocker immediately jumped out of the jeepney but was not fast >>enough to avoid getting a 9x19 "goodbye" round in the spine." > >Interesting, but wasn't the self-defence bit over by then? So can we >assume that retribution a justifiable act nowadays? Judge, jury and >executioner eh! According to the legal definition, probably yeah, the self-defence bit was over. However, just as easily, the fleeing blocker could have been exiting the jeepney so he wasn't a sitting duck while drawing his own firearm. Evasion does not automatically equal retreat. Badger Siling Labuyo Arnis www.youngforest.ca _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 11:20:53 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: self defense? To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Probably that would be the scenario in the U.S. In the Phil., the cops would say, "Two more scumbags we do not have to worry about." Chances are, the fiscal (prosecutor) would not even bother pressing charges against Mr. Glock Shooter. As my friend Jorge Penafiel pointed out, most who commit these kinds of crimes are the dregs of society (ex-cons, drug addicts, career petty criminals, etc) who will not hesitate to kill if you resist or even just talk back. Sadly, there would be little pity for any of their ilk, er, killed in the line of work. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com Todd Ellner wrote: >"officer I was in fear of my life." Prosecutor: "The attack had stopped. The victim was fleeing. Your Honor, this vicious thug wasn't in any sort of REASONABLE fear. He just wanted to murder his victim." Judge: "Looks that way to me." _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gints Klimanis" To: Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 13:47:05 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Kicking back at the DB Gathering Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > From: "Marc Denny" > 1) Fotos from our 6/25 "Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack" are up at > http://dogbrothers.com/gallery/ > > 2) There's several shots of kicking during the knife fights and during > the > stick fights too. Yes, there is a lot of kicking during the knife sparring. As anyone that has practiced knife sparring, an unsharpened training blade doesn't hurt. Marc has mentioned trying to come up with a solution to keep the knife matches "real", but this has proven challenging. Since the training blades cause little pain, many players resort to punching and kicking to cause pain without regard for the opponent's knife. The net result is that the opponent increases his distance out of respect for the kicks. "Yeah, you got me, but I gotcha harder!" I have seen some kicks that are effective albeit risky. 1) Push/front kicking opponent hard enough to keep them away, knock the wind out of them, often causing them to drop the blade. 2) Low level kicks to the opponent's lead leg for distraction or momentary paralysis or unbalancing. 3) Add your own here 4) Actually kicking the knife out of a saber-gripped hand. It takes an advanced player to stick to basics such as drawing or taking the kick and trying to cut the leg. In the match, you look bad because you took a kick, but you've come closer to testing your cutting skills. Gints Klimanis --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 15:02:58 -0700 From: "Lawrence, Marc J." To: Subject: [Eskrima] A camp fire discussion on Martial Arts Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Recently I was on a camping trip with my sons. My older son asked my why Europeans did not develop a martial arts like Asians developed. I replied they do martial arts but not one system that had all the parts of a typical martial arts system we are used to today. My older son said what do you mean and I replied Europeans had English Boxing, Savate- kicking, Greco-Roman wresting, Sword & dagger fencing, French stick fighting, English quarter staff, Protégées long stick and Archery but not any one place ever had all the pieces together. So my younger son said they had all the parts but never put it together. I said that some scholars say it was do to the advent of firearms, but I think it was due to something else. Just some camp fire thoughts. Mabuhay ang Eskrima, Marc Lawrence --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 23:06:24 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: RE: [Eskrima] Self-defence? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net im saying nothing till i get my solicitor On 8/4/06, Ken Borowiec wrote: > "officer I was in fear of my life." > -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: knife defense To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 17:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Believe me or not, there are instances that kicking the knife might solve > your incapability to use hands. Possibilities are endless. Well, you shouldn't kick the knife. If you must kick, kick the arm or hand that is holding the knife. Or kick them in the privates. But don't kick the knife... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "stephen luna" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: knife defense Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 19:50:12 -0700 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net **These individuals have advantages the "normal" martial artists doesn't have. They have less to worry when they use the knife (i.e. no worry of losing a job or being jailed, morality, etc.) which makes them more ferocious in their attacks. The "normal" martial artist, on the other hand, have certain reservations. When a "civilized" person is attacked, he tends to reason because of societal norms. IMHO I disagree with that statement. I believe that a "normal" MA would/should attack and defend themselves with the ferocity of a mother bear protecting her young. Because that person should have the motivation to make it back home to a wife, children, mother, etc. That love or desire would make them rise above and beyond their normal self. and to end, a favorite quote of mine from Yamamoto Tsunemoto's Hagakure "At the end of your blade you hold the fate of two souls, yours and the one you protect" However I don't think that those who fall didn't fight with that tenacity ~Luna _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 22:54:32 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Self Defense? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net A careful postmortem analysis of the sequence of events would indicate that the the Defender was not really that enthusiastic in mowing the robbers down. In fact, he even politely requested them to just excuse him from their impromptu fund-raising program. Had he been simply plain trigger-happy and "legalese" about the entire situation, he would just have simply mowed them down the moment they pulled out their knives. Instead, he subtly tried to give them a way out of the situation - one last, final chance at self-redemption. But, as fate would have it, they are probaly too far gone down the road of perdition to realize that they are about to bite more than what they could chew... As a Philippine "binayle" (traditional public dance) saying goes: "Once the music has started it is very difficult to stop the dancing..." > > Interesting, but wasn't the self-defence bit over by then? So can we > assume > that retribution a justifiable act nowadays? Judge, jury and executioner > eh! > > Pugil --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest