Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2006 16:33:18 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #246 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Another kicking story (bgdebuque) 2. Re: Self defense? (bgdebuque) 3. Re: Another kicking story (jay de leon) 4. funny ? maybe not (darren.d@shaw.ca) 5. A shocking difference (Marc Denny) 6. RE: A camp fire discussion on Martial Arts (1@msfencing.org) 7. GM Ernesto Presas, FMA Museum, and IPMAF Training Camp (Alex.France@kp.org) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 23:13:05 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Another kicking story Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Officially, he was hit by a stray round while participating in a felony... =[:->] (2) In the US, if you were the Glock wielder, you would probably be > legally enjoined not to shoot the second robber. The reverse thinking > applies in the Philippines. Preferably shoot all three dead with their > knives beside them, to prove you were indeed outnumbered and > severely at risk. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 23:46:09 -0400 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Self defense? Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net And who do you think will testify in favor of the 3 robbers? Not the jeepney driver who just got his neck poked by a knife. And, definitely not the jeepney passengers who had just been threatened by 2 knife-wielding thugs and divested of their few precious personal belongings. "Jeepney na lang nga ang kayang sakyan! Nanakawan pa!" Not even the surviving robber, because, in all likelihood, he has already several pending criminal cases against him. The Police would probably throw a party if he shows his face in a precinct to file a complaint. It is interesting to note though how a bleeding heart can easily elevate an otherwise vicious attacker into the status of victim and vice versa... =[:->] Reminds me a lot of the Sonny Parsons case... It would be interesting to know what choices you will make if by some twist of fate you would find yourself in a similar situation... =[:->] Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:03:43 -0700 > From: Todd Ellner > To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [Eskrima] Re: self defense? > Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > > >"officer I was in fear of my life." > > Prosecutor: "The attack had stopped. The victim was fleeing. Your Honor, > this > vicious thug wasn't in any sort of REASONABLE fear. He just wanted to > murder > his victim." > > Judge: "Looks that way to me." --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 20:57:32 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Another kicking story To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Was that from the Pasay police dept, PNP (Philippine National Police) or Fiscal's Office? Either way, as I said in my last post, no pity... Jay de Leon bgdebuque wrote: Officially, he was hit by a stray round while participating in a felony... =[:->] (2) In the US, if you were the Glock wielder, you would probably be > legally enjoined not to shoot the second robber. The reverse thinking > applies in the Philippines. Preferably shoot all three dead with their > knives beside them, to prove you were indeed outnumbered and > severely at risk. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2006 23:45:38 -0600 From: darren.d@shaw.ca To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] funny ? maybe not Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For a second I was enjoying this post ( What if an individual with no arms is defending against someone holding a knife in a prosthetic hand? ) But then he got serious again, Dam ! Message: 7 Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:38:57 -0700 From: "Joseph Marana" Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Re: knife defense To: Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I think it can be dangerous to limit our options to blanket rules (never kick a weapon, never kick to the head, never turn your back/attempt spinning flying kicks, etc.). What would not be some of our first options may very well have a time and place. What if an individual with no arms is defending against someone holding a knife in a prosthetic hand? What if in an instant, the opportunity opens up for a good teep (sp?) to a knife in hand? What if we are holding a baby and the attacker lunges in with his empty hand to choke or grab and we see his/her weapon up and chambered by his shoulder? Should we not take these openings because they violate common scenarios? I'm not saying necessarily that anything is possible at anytime. I am also not saying we should train for every single eventuality possible (we probably couldn't, even if we tried). What I am saying is despite our own tactical preferences on how to respond to situations, we can't knock something just because we don't prefer it. I think its great to have these kinds of debates, and disagree when someone tries to tell us or anyone else that their "kick to the hand method" is the only way, but I also think it is important to keep an open mind and not be dualistic in our critiques. Joe --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Marc Denny" To: Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 22:54:43 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] A shocking difference Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: Gints is C-Baltic Dog and I think he identifies several important points. I would add that if you are on your game, using an aluminum trainer, especially a bit longer one, should enable some really unpleasant hits. Several of the guys are now going barehanded (either literally or with batting gloves or equivalent thereof which serve only to protect the hand from cheesegratering on the fencing masks.) A proper crack with an aluminum trainer should be able to break hands and hurt considerably elsewhere. In this Gathering for the first time we used the "Shocknife", courtesy of Jeff Quail. The SK generates a goodly amount of electricity, with blue sparks coming from the edge when at the top setting- which of course is what we used. Before the fights began I chatted with the crowd and zapped several semi-willing members of the audience. Their reactions persuaded the rest of those there that the SK does indeed pack some zip. That said, when it came time to fight, not many fighters were willing to give it a go-- which tells me we may be on to something good :-). Amongst those giving it a go were Island Dog and Dog Mark Scott in a fine stick vs. knife (i.e. the SK) fight. Concerned about the knife, the stickman tended to have his hand in front where it was actually teeped more than once as part of the cornering and closing process. Once the close was achieved the knife scored the kill. Actually the knifeman released the switch on the SK because he was concerned about cooking flesh if he kept it going on the same spot. The Adventure continues, Crafty Dog > Message: 7 > From: "Gints Klimanis" >> >> From: "Marc Denny" >> 1) Fotos from our 6/25 "Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack" are up at >> http://dogbrothers.com/gallery/ >> >> 2) There's several shots of kicking during the knife fights and during >> the >> stick fights too. > > Yes, there is a lot of kicking during the knife sparring. As anyone that > has practiced knife sparring, an unsharpened training blade doesn't hurt. > Marc has mentioned trying to come up with a solution to keep the knife > matches "real", but this has proven challenging. Since the training > blades > cause little pain, many players resort to punching and kicking to cause > pain > without regard for the opponent's knife. The net result is that the > opponent increases his distance out of respect for the kicks. "Yeah, you > got me, but I gotcha harder!" > > I have seen some kicks that are effective albeit risky. > 1) Push/front kicking opponent hard enough to keep them away, knock the > wind > out of them, often causing them to drop the blade. > 2) Low level kicks to the opponent's lead leg for distraction or > momentary > paralysis or unbalancing. > 3) Add your own here > 4) Actually kicking the knife out of a saber-gripped hand. > > It takes an advanced player to stick to basics such as drawing or taking > the > kick and trying to cut the leg. In the match, you look bad because you > took a kick, but you've come closer to testing your cutting skills. > > Gints Klimanis --__--__-- Message: 6 From: <1@msfencing.org> To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] A camp fire discussion on Martial Arts Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 05:01:01 -0500 Organization: Mississippi Academy of Arms Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I replied they > do martial arts but not one system that had all the parts of a typical martial > arts system we are used to today. Typical meaning? Most of the typical eastern martial art systems today do not seem to me to be complete: Aikido, Judo, Jujitsu, Taekwondo, Karate, Kendo, Iaijutsu, bojutsu, jojutsu. These all appear to me to be sub arts which are not complete. Pieces of the original and complete samurai art. > ... I > replied Europeans had English Boxing, Savate- kicking, Greco-Roman wresting, > Sword & dagger fencing, French stick fighting, English quarter staff, > Protigies long stick and Archery but not any one place ever had all the pieces > together. Actually this is a common myth that gets repeated so often that folks believe it. If you look at some of the surviving manuals left by the European masters from the 13th century onward you will find that many of them taught highly systematic and complete martial arts which included punching, kicking, take downs, grappling, wrestling, disarms, dagger, long knife, longsword, short sword and buckler, quarterstaff, armored fighting, unarmored fighting, fighting on foot, fighting on horseback. That would be pretty complete for the 13th century. You have to realize these guys were warriors. They had to know more than just cut and thrust in order survive. These guys were highly trained and highly efficient warriors juts like their eastern counterparts the samurai. Their art was battle tested and refined over and over again. German master Johannes Liechtenauer had codified his complete martial art and written a manual on it by 1389. It included the above mentioned sub-arts. From the 13th to 16th centuries there were over 50 different manuals written by these warrior masters in Germany alone. Many were complete martial arts. The Italians masters had similar complete martial arts. It is also a common myth that these warriors wore armor that was so heavy they needed hoists to lift them onto their horses and that their sword art was nothing more than smash and bang. When you examine the armor from that day (and actually put it on) and study the old manuals you find that these warrior were high tech for their day. Their swords were 1.5 to 2.7 lbs not 20 lbs as some myths say. These guys were serious warriors who used the best equipment and techniques of their day. I dare say that most of them could take any of us out quiet easily if we could go back in time and have a go at them. Blessings, Rez "Standing guard on old, forgotten roads, that no one travels anymore." The Fencing Master, by Arturo Perez Rez Johnson, M d'A Headmaster: Mississippi Academy of Arms President: United States Traditional Fencing Association Certified Fencing Instructor: (USTFA, TFI, AAI, USFCA) Certified Fencing Master Apprentice: (USTFA, USFCA) Teaching Classical Fencing and Historical Swordsmanship since 1980 Modern Sport Fencing Coach from 1980 - 2002 Teaching cane fighting in Mississippi since 1999 Authorized Goju-Shorei Weapons System Instructor since 2004 Mississippi Academy of Arms P.O. Box 955 Pelahatchie, MS 39145-0955 E-Mail: 1@MSFencing.org Academy Website: http://MSFencing.org USTFA Website: http://TraditionalFencing.org / Mississippi Academy of Arms *//////{<>===========================- \ Virtute et Armis Teaching Fencing in Central Mississippi since 1980 > -----Original Message----- > From: Lawrence, Marc J. [mailto:marc.lawrence@ngc.com] > Recently I was on a camping trip with my sons. My older son asked my why > Europeans did not develop a martial arts like Asians developed. I replied they > do martial arts but not one system that had all the parts of a typical martial > arts system we are used to today. My older son said what do you mean and I > replied Europeans had English Boxing, Savate- kicking, Greco-Roman wresting, > Sword & dagger fencing, French stick fighting, English quarter staff, > Protigies long stick and Archery but not any one place ever had all the pieces > together. So my younger son said they had all the parts but never put it > together. I said that some scholars say it was do to the advent of firearms, > but I think it was due to something else. Just some camp fire thoughts. > Mabuhay ang Eskrima, > Marc Lawrence --__--__-- Message: 7 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net, escrima_arnis@topica.com From: Alex.France@kp.org Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 17:20:19 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] GM Ernesto Presas, FMA Museum, and IPMAF Training Camp Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This email is going out to a couple of on-line FMA Digests. and via blind cc to the IPMAF General Membership and friends. GRANDMASTER ERNESTO PRESAS I guess by now most of you know that "GM" will not be able to make it to the States this year as we had all been hoping. So, paraphrasing a well-known saying, "If the mountain won't come to (us), (we'll) have to go to the mountain." In this case the "mountain" is the Philippines. FMA MUSEUM & RECOGNITION CEREMONIES This will take place April 21-22, 2007 at the Manila Hotel, in Manila, Philippines. Objects donated for placement in the museum will be on display there. Along with the festivities, a banquet will be held at the hotel to cover the cost of the event. The price of the banquet has not been determined yet. Depending on the number of people who come, the banquet could cost anywhere from fifty (U.S.) dollars to a hundred and fifty dollars. The price of the banquet has to be enough to cover our meals, rental for the ballroom that we'd be using, and any awards of recognition that GM Presas, and maybe other GM's, may want to present. I know that GM Presas wants to honor all his Lakans and Dayangs. He also wants to honor ANY and ALL of his brother's instructors who show up. We want to also honor all other instructors from any FMA system or style, who show up. Why? Because each instructor is doing their part in the preservation and propagation of FMA. This is one reason why we've decided to hold off on the FMA HOF (which is more exclusive) and concentrate on the FMA Museum (which is all-inclusive). With the FMA Museum, we can embrace everyone who is doing their part, no matter how big or small; "each according to their abilities." At the very least, everyone who attends the banquet will receive some token of appreciation from "GM" and the International Philippine Martial Arts Federation; and their names will be inscribed on a special plaque commemorating this historic event. The plaque will be on prominent display in the Museum. If you attend, your children and you're children's children will be able to point to your name with pride, knowing that you helped establish the Museum. To every FMA instructor and practitioner reading this, consider this your personal invitation to attend this event. If you'd like to be a part of this, please let me (Alex.France@kp.org) know, preferably by August month-end so that we can begin the logistics. As I receive your names, I will add them to a roster of potential attendees and post this roster on our website, www.presas.org. IPMAF 10TH WORLD ARNIS CONGRESS AND TRAINING CAMP For the Kombatan Family, our Training Camp begins April 23rd and ends May 7th. We will fly from Manila in Luzon to our beach training camp in Hinigaran, Negros (in the Central Visayays). While we will be training hard for the next two weeks, our guests (individuals and groups from other organizations) can come along with us, train as long or short as they want, or just relax and enjoy the sea, the sand, and the sun. I used to produce the brochures for this, but this time I'm lucky to have Master Russ Blonski, in Canada, is produce the latest one. If any of you (Kombatan and non-Kombatan) are interested in this, please let me know and I will arrange for a brochure (soft or hardcopy) to be sent to you. Alex(ander Bautista Bayot France) On behalf of Grandmaster Ernesto A Presas International Philippine Martial Arts Federation Website: www.presas.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest