Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:06:13 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #280 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Down for the count (Wieneke, Myron) 2. Benjamin "Lonely Dog" Rittiner Comes To Glasgow (Ste Ormerod) 3. Sparring vs. Fighting (Ryan Gruhn) 4. Grandfathers Speak 2: Maestro Sonny Umpad (craftydog@dogbrothers.com) 5. Sonny Umpad (I F) 6. RE: Down for the count (jay de leon) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Wieneke, Myron" To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Down for the count Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:04:52 +0100 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net How about the Pacquiao-Morales fight, I'm sure there were more people watching that than any UFC match could draw? I agree the heavyweight fights are very boring but the lighter weight big fights still excite enough people to be a more internationally televised and watched event that UFC, IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: Eskrima-FMA [mailto:eskrima.fma.digest@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 9:38 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Down for the count Ultimate Fighting's popularity may put boxing down for count Rick Maese Baltimore Sun Aug 26, 2006 I sat ringside for my first boxing match when I was 14 years old. There might have been 100 people in the room, but somehow those droplets of blood chose to fly from the fighter's nose and land on my white shirt. I was infected. Whatever it was about the supposed sweet science, it got me. So it's somewhat sad to see what's happened these past few years and to realize what's going to happen during the next few. A sport like boxing doesn't just die and disappear. It slowly fades away until one day you look around and notice that it's no longer around. Instead, your attention is taken by something else, and it's pretty clear by now exactly what that something else is. The heavyweight title bout between Oleg Maskaev and Hasim Rahman two weeks ago got just 60,000 pay-per-view buys. Tonight's Ultimate Fighting Championship show, headlined by Chuck Liddell vs. Renato Sobral, will likely generate more than 500,000 buys. You see where we're going? No headstone has been erected over boxing's grave, but UFC is holding a shovel and prepared to splash dirt on a casket. "I can't even watch boxing now," Dana White, president of UFC, said recently. "I really can't - and I came from a boxing background. It literally bores me to death. I'd rather watch Power Rangers with the kids than watch boxing." Of course he's going to say that. It's in his interest. But he's actually right. Officials from the boxing end and their UFC counterparts carefully try to distance themselves from each other, but it'd be naive to not recognize the cause-effect relationship. The grandfathers still like boxing; the grandkids are flocking to UFC. "I think it's wrong to compare the two. The similarity is that they're both unarmed combat. But that's it." That's Marc Ratner talking, the former head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, as respected during his time as anyone in boxing. He's a former opponent of unruly mixed-martial arts and now works under the UFC banner, lending the sport a lot of credibility. He's still a huge boxing fan but concedes: "When old boxing fans pass away, there aren't new ones to take their place." The old guard that runs boxing - the people who made it an exciting sport for many, many years - has been slow to adjust. They don't even recognize that the two might be somehow connected. Even if you want to believe that boxing fans aren't flocking to UFC, you have to recognize that young people who might have been boxing fans 20 years ago are instead buying tonight's UFC pay-per-view show. When I was in Las Vegas recently, I spoke with Bob Arum, who brought the world boxing iconic figures such as Muhammad Ali, George Foreman and Oscar de la Hoya. "I don't think Ultimate Fighting has had an impact except that it has demonstrated to boxing promoters another method to promoting the product. They've done a marvelous job in promotion," he says. "But we have a totally different audience. "The demographic of UFC are young white males. To cater to that audience, you basically only see white men who fight. Our audience for boxing is Hispanic, African-American and maybe a few whites." I'm not saying Arum is wrong, but that's not the biggest difference. Boxing fans were alive when Cassius Clay changed his name, whereas UFC fans couldn't even name Cassius Clay. Which sport do you think has a brighter long-term future? "My biggest beef with boxing right now is that the powers that be, the Bob Arums and Don Kings, they aren't interested in securing the future of the sport," said White, young and brash and with heady plans for the UFC. "They'll never put a dime of their own money back into it. It's all about, 'How much money can I put into my pocket right here, right now?' There's no investing in the future." I hope boxing adjusts. White took a page from Vince McMahon's pro wrestling playbook by using cable programming to promote pay-per-view shows. UFC's reality show The Ultimate Fighter has spawned legitimate stars. Arum hopes to mimic the model using the cable network OLN to showcase younger fighters. Unless those young fighters are in a caged octagon and are fighting mixed martial arts - a la UFC - it might be too late. Admittedly, I was a slow convert. But there's something raw and exciting about UFC and all of its disciplines: boxing, judo, jujitsu, freestyle wrestling, taekwondo and others. When I was in Las Vegas, I toured the UFC gym, where the popular reality show is filmed. The show's first season launched the fighting career of Forrest Griffin, a former police officer from Georgia. Griffin, who squares off against Stephan Bonnar tonight, struggled to describe UFC's appeal, before finally hitting it perfectly: "It doesn't try to be something it's not. We're not carrying sticks and chasing a puck on ice. We're the part of sports that you like. We just get in there and fight in every style we can." _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ============================================================================== Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.credit-suisse.com/legal/en/disclaimer_email_ib.html ============================================================================== --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Ste Ormerod" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:59:24 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Benjamin "Lonely Dog" Rittiner Comes To Glasgow Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Greetings everyone, I'm Please to Announce that Combative Alliance Stickfighters has been able to arrange for Benjamin "Lonely Dog" Rittiner to come to Glasgow. This will be the 1st time Benjamin has taught in the UK & will be held on the 25th & 26th of November In the Pierce Institute in Govan, Glasgow (close to the tube). Benjamin is not only the 1st Person from Europe to gain a Full Dog Title, he is one of only two people that Guro Marc "Crafty Dog" Denny has promoted to full instructor in Dog Brothers Martial Arts, has recently been made a member of the Dog Brothers Council of Elders (until now a position only held by founding members) and is considered to be one of the Best Active fighters that the Dog Brothers have to offer. Benjamin will be covering DBMA's blend of Kali & Krabi Krabong and also DBMA emptyhand/palmstick. Cost will be £70 for both days £40 for one. A £20 deposit is asked for by the end of September & please contact me for instructor discounts if your bringing students. Ste Ormerod --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Ryan Gruhn" To: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:00:37 -0400 Subject: [Eskrima] Sparring vs. Fighting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Here is what I have always thought of in regards to fighting, sparring, etc.: Full Contact - 100% of what you have in you. Real Contact - keeping the contact as real as possible, limiting the rules and pads. Sparring - an egoless game to better yourself and your partner. This usually contains some way of keeping track of "who is winning" and we are not meaning to intentionally hurt our partner, this is usually aided by pads. Fighting - All out destruction and domination of your opponent. When we combined these we get the following: Full Contact Sparring - Giving 100% of what you have while still maintaining safety by wearing pads. (A MMA fighter might train this way before a fight, using only gloves and shin pads) Real Contact Sparring - minimizing the pads but still keeping the "game" egoless. This is a very hard combination because it is easy to move over into the realm of fighting. (Dog Brothers practitioners may train this way before a gathering using only what is needed to fight - fencing mask & street hockey gloves) Full Contact Fighting - All out destruction and domination of your opponent while still having the option to wear pads. (UFC, K1) Real Contact Fighting - minimizing the pads and going for all out destruction and domination of your opponent. (Dog Brothers gatherings - they usually only wear a fencing mask which does not offer very much protection and at some points batting gloves which offer no protection. The Sayoc group has held their version of gatherings where they only wear a cup and mouth piece. This is the closest thing to Real Contact Fighting that I know of. Obviously other examples are bare knuckle Muay Thai, street fighting and NHB matches with no gloves.) Ryan Gruhn Cell: 814.769.6092 MSN: ryangruhn@hotmail.com AIM & Yahoo & ICQ: RyanGruhn http://www.ryangruhn.com 1210 West College Ave State College, PA 16801 [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of image001.gif] --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:50:01 -0400 (EDT) From: craftydog@dogbrothers.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Grandfathers Speak 2: Maestro Sonny Umpad Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Woof All: I'm on an awkward to use laptop for the next week, so please forgive me for simply giving a related URL about our next DVD "The Grandfathers Speak Vol 2: Maestro Sonny Umpad" http://dogbrothers.com/phpBB2/index.php?topic=907.0 The wood is consumed, but the fire burns on. Crafty Dog --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "I F" To: Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:20:46 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] Sonny Umpad Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net That was terrible news even though it wasn't unexpected. We have lost a great practitioner and teacher. It always amazes me when I watch my private recordings with him how good he really was yet how relatively unknown he was to the fma community. Rest in peace, Maestro Sonny --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:01:08 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: RE: [Eskrima] Down for the count To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net FWIW, we watched the last De La Hoya-Mayorga fight. Of course, all the Pacquiao fights. Incidentally, the Pacquiao fights are televised live on regular television in the Philippines. Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com "Wieneke, Myron" wrote: How about the Pacquiao-Morales fight, I'm sure there were more people watching that than any UFC match could draw? I agree the heavyweight fights are very boring but the lighter weight big fights still excite enough people to be a more internationally televised and watched event that UFC, IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: Eskrima-FMA [mailto:eskrima.fma.digest@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 9:38 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Down for the count Ultimate Fighting's popularity may put boxing down for count Rick Maese Baltimore Sun Aug 26, 2006 I sat ringside for my first boxing match when I was 14 years old. There might have been 100 people in the room, but somehow those droplets of blood chose to fly from the fighter's nose and land on my white shirt. I was infected. Whatever it was about the supposed sweet science, it got me. So it's somewhat sad to see what's happened these past few years and to realize what's going to happen during the next few. A sport like boxing doesn't just die and disappear. It slowly fades away until one day you look around and notice that it's no longer around. Instead, your attention is taken by something else, and it's pretty clear by now exactly what that something else is. The heavyweight title bout between Oleg Maskaev and Hasim Rahman two weeks ago got just 60,000 pay-per-view buys. Tonight's Ultimate Fighting Championship show, headlined by Chuck Liddell vs. Renato Sobral, will likely generate more than 500,000 buys. You see where we're going? No headstone has been erected over boxing's grave, but UFC is holding a shovel and prepared to splash dirt on a casket. "I can't even watch boxing now," Dana White, president of UFC, said recently. "I really can't - and I came from a boxing background. It literally bores me to death. I'd rather watch Power Rangers with the kids than watch boxing." Of course he's going to say that. It's in his interest. But he's actually right. Officials from the boxing end and their UFC counterparts carefully try to distance themselves from each other, but it'd be naive to not recognize the cause-effect relationship. The grandfathers still like boxing; the grandkids are flocking to UFC. "I think it's wrong to compare the two. The similarity is that they're both unarmed combat. But that's it." That's Marc Ratner talking, the former head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, as respected during his time as anyone in boxing. He's a former opponent of unruly mixed-martial arts and now works under the UFC banner, lending the sport a lot of credibility. He's still a huge boxing fan but concedes: "When old boxing fans pass away, there aren't new ones to take their place." The old guard that runs boxing - the people who made it an exciting sport for many, many years - has been slow to adjust. They don't even recognize that the two might be somehow connected. Even if you want to believe that boxing fans aren't flocking to UFC, you have to recognize that young people who might have been boxing fans 20 years ago are instead buying tonight's UFC pay-per-view show. When I was in Las Vegas recently, I spoke with Bob Arum, who brought the world boxing iconic figures such as Muhammad Ali, George Foreman and Oscar de la Hoya. "I don't think Ultimate Fighting has had an impact except that it has demonstrated to boxing promoters another method to promoting the product. They've done a marvelous job in promotion," he says. "But we have a totally different audience. "The demographic of UFC are young white males. To cater to that audience, you basically only see white men who fight. Our audience for boxing is Hispanic, African-American and maybe a few whites." I'm not saying Arum is wrong, but that's not the biggest difference. Boxing fans were alive when Cassius Clay changed his name, whereas UFC fans couldn't even name Cassius Clay. Which sport do you think has a brighter long-term future? "My biggest beef with boxing right now is that the powers that be, the Bob Arums and Don Kings, they aren't interested in securing the future of the sport," said White, young and brash and with heady plans for the UFC. "They'll never put a dime of their own money back into it. It's all about, 'How much money can I put into my pocket right here, right now?' There's no investing in the future." I hope boxing adjusts. White took a page from Vince McMahon's pro wrestling playbook by using cable programming to promote pay-per-view shows. UFC's reality show The Ultimate Fighter has spawned legitimate stars. Arum hopes to mimic the model using the cable network OLN to showcase younger fighters. Unless those young fighters are in a caged octagon and are fighting mixed martial arts - a la UFC - it might be too late. Admittedly, I was a slow convert. But there's something raw and exciting about UFC and all of its disciplines: boxing, judo, jujitsu, freestyle wrestling, taekwondo and others. When I was in Las Vegas, I toured the UFC gym, where the popular reality show is filmed. The show's first season launched the fighting career of Forrest Griffin, a former police officer from Georgia. Griffin, who squares off against Stephan Bonnar tonight, struggled to describe UFC's appeal, before finally hitting it perfectly: "It doesn't try to be something it's not. We're not carrying sticks and chasing a puck on ice. We're the part of sports that you like. We just get in there and fight in every style we can." _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ============================================================================== Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.credit-suisse.com/legal/en/disclaimer_email_ib.html ============================================================================== _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest