Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2006 02:59:50 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #282 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: In search of consistency (neercsemantwelve@aol.com) 2. (no subject) (Alex Ercia) 3. sport fighting (Marc MacYoung) 4. Re: Eskrima] Thanks for the Mindanao Articles (jay de leon) 5. Re: Thanks for the Mindanao Articles (jay de leon) 6. Re: Re: Marquis Of Queensberry & Mindanao Articles (jay de leon) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 02:24:07 -0400 From: neercsemantwelve@aol.com Subject: Re: [Eskrima] In search of consistency To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net the gathering is sparring?? for me sparring is practice, not very dangerous- a sort of game. the gathering for me IS a fight. you know you are about to fight but your nerves, your state of awareness, your adrenal state, give me a feeling that is VERY different than sparring. for me the gathering is not hard sparring it IS a FIGHT. in sparring not very often is someone REALLY, REALLY trying to take you O U T. Francisco ''C- Frankfurter'' Taruc -----Original Message----- From: craftydog@dogbrothers.com To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 1:05 PM Subject: [Eskrima] In search of consistency Woof All: As I said in my first post, there's many different kinds of fights-- a point Animal's intervention in this thread makes with much moew precisely. But FWIW most people call boxing a fight, most people call kickboxing a fight, most people call Muay Thai a fight, and most people call MMA a fight. I have NEVER heard anyone call any of these "sparring". Unless someone is calling these sparring, it makes sense to me that he also call what we do fighting-- certainly the professional MMA fighters at the RAW Gym where we hold our DB Gatherings do. (Speaking of pro MMA fighters, I've never heard anyone call them "sparrers"-- either to their face or in conversation with others) What communicates here is an inconsistent standard on the part of some for reasons which elude me. I'm on vacation and this probably will be my last post on this. The Adventure continues, Crafty Dog _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Alex Ercia" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:19:19 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] (no subject) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Condolense to the family of Sonny Umpad. Alex --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 11:33:19 -0600 Subject: [Eskrima] sport fighting Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > I like your term "sport fighting." By your definition, does that > include then boxing (prizefighting), muay thai kickboxing, Sabaki > competitions, tough men competitions, and the like? Pretty much. The simple fact is these events are organized, with rules, equipment, audience and support staff (corner men, refs etc). Having said that, the guys in the competion are going at it to the best of their ability (assuming the match isn't fixed) so it's pretty damned intense. However, I've found this to be the source of a great deal of confusion, because people mistake the dedication, physical prowess, intensity and channeled aggression of professional and semi pro athletes with the violence that the police will arrest you for. Something that a lot of people don't recognize is that while education can be general, training is for a specific purpose/task (e.g. getting a degree in computer science vs. being "trained" on a specific program). These purpose/tasks have details, requirements and mindsets that are tailored specifically for them. . The widely held belief is that being competent in one arena automatically translates into and prepares you for another is false. I respect the skills and physical prowess of athletes -- and yes, while certain skillsets DO translate over -- there are many other factors that don't. Sports fighting is very much a specialized skill and one that is worthy of respect in its own right. However, it has been marketed, promoted and widely accepted in the MA/SD/WSD/RBSD/DT worlds that it prepares you for every kind of violence that you will encounter. Since it is telling people what they want to hear, they cling to this belief. > Do you make a distinction with "entertainment fighting" > like WWF wrestling (watch me get bitchslapped like > John Stoessel), hot oil wrestling, mud wrestling and > the like? It's funny you should mention those. Because the same bigotry/flawed thinking shows up in reverse in regarding these events. I've looked into the entertainment wrestling circuit and the simple fact is, these guys are incredible athletes as well. The physical strains on the body are overwhelming. Add to that, there is intense, uniform training that goes into this field. While the outcome of these "matches" are prearranged, the events themselves are NOT choreographed. What there are, however, are standardized sets. That is to say there are established moves and counters. The fighters cue each other. For example one guy comes in a certain way. His "opponent" knows exactly what the "attacker" is going to do. Furthermore, the "victim" will respond with an equally pro forma set of actions. Both the attack and response methodologies are designed to ensure the safety of both parties. Once the cue is given, both the attacker and defender know exactly what the other is going to do. Both parties step into the "ring" with the same bag of tricks and then proceed to improvise the match. So when you are in the ring you REALLY have to think on your feet in order not to get hurt and you have to be in damned good physical shape to endure the abuses you'll take. The bottomline is if you don't do these moves correctly you WILL be hurt because the physics are very, very real... that guys IS being picked up and dropped, the hits ARE connecting and -- even pulled -- there is a lot of force from getting clipped by someone that big and healthy. Having said this, entertainment fighting is categorically dismissed by self-proclaimed "fighters." It is written off not only as fake, but as a sham. This ignores the incredible althetism of the participants, the intensive training that far outstrips anything except professional "fighters" and the unchoreographed nature of the event. Unchoreographed on one hand, but limited and agreed upon offenses/defenses of the participants on the other. Which face it, isn't that what the "rules" of a sporting event do? Limited and agreed upon offenses? And for every action there is a counter/block/preferred response to minimize damage. And the participants of both are every bit as intense because the risk of injury is there. In the same vein, the female mudwrestling I've seen may or may not have a preplanned outcome. Yes, I've seen poorly staged "fights." But, I've seen examples where the girls REALLY went to town on each other. Yeah they pranced around collecting money beforehand, but it was a legitimate cat fight once they got in the kiddie pool. And ask any guy who coughed up a hundred bucks to get into an oil filled pool and instead of a free grope he found himself getting his ass handed to him by a girl who knew how to "fight" in those specialized conditions. Interesting quandry isn't it? The same logic that one uses to dismiss WWF and mudwresting is by "fiat of the faithful" never to be applied to what they are doing and its application. M --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:03:26 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Eskrima] Thanks for the Mindanao Articles To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Rudy : The book is now available at the online store at www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com , with a bonus book of my recent trip to the Philippines. Jay RUDY CARRILLO wrote: Mr. De Leon I agree with Jay, The articles are very interesting to read. Let me know when the book comes out Thanx Rudy Carrillo _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:06:02 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Thanks for the Mindanao Articles To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Tocayo: The book is now available at the online store at www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com, with a bonus book about my recent trip to the Philippines wherein I attended the 3rd FMA Festival. Regards, Jay "dvljr1@hawaiiantel.net" wrote: Mr. de Leon, Ever since you started posting your articles, I was intrigued by them. I always looked forward to the next installment. Thanks for the good reads and let us know when the book will be out. I will be in line to buy one. (A signed copy would even be better). Anyway, thanks again and good luck on the book! Salamat, Jay (another one) _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:08:24 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Marquis Of Queensberry & Mindanao Articles To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Eric: My book is now available at the online store at www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com, together with a bonus book about my recent trip to the Philippines wherein I attended the 3rd World FMA Festival. Regards, Jay eric.taimanglo@us.army.mil wrote: Like Richard "The Rogue Warrior" Marcinko said, "The Marquis Of Queensberry is a queen, and he's buried." :) Kuya Jay, the Mindanao Articles were very enjoyable to read; Mom dated an officer in the Philippine Air Force Special Operations Wing, and your stories reminded me of a couple of his tales, most notably his experience with what his instructors called "confidence shooting". You ran a prescribed distance with full load and weapon, then your buddy drew straws to see who got to hold two balloons at arms length at 25 meters, which you had to shoot with your rifle. Yikes. Pucker factor? You bet!!! Anyway, Kuya Jay, thanks for the stories. Ingats! _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest