Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 02:58:28 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #365 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. ground, grappling and marketing (Marc MacYoung) 2. Re: Stickfighitng at Hermann Park in Houston this Sunday (Manny California) 3. Groundfighting Philippine style (bgdebuque) 4. wrist weights (Pananandta@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Marc MacYoung" To: Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 12:37:35 -0700 Subject: [Eskrima] ground, grappling and marketing Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > 9 out of 10 fights usually end up with someone on the ground, but it aint > always both of them! Arrrrgh! I can't find the link someone sent me which busts the myth about 90$ ... errr I mean ....90% of fights going to the ground. It was great because it was based on an article published by ASLET (American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers) and spoke of the actual report that Sgt Greg Dossey of the LAPD did. A report that revolutionized arrest and control tactics. (Not only in the LAPD, but law enforcement everywhere). But I found two that discuss the fact that this issue has been intentionally misrepresented by grapplers and referenced the ASLET article. http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=1&Number=137805&page=159&fpart=all http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1312 I seem to remember that the numbers of "when the suspect resists" and "one or both" ending up on the ground being a little lower. But that could be me getting the numbers of when an officer goes down with a suspect or when the officer puts the suspect down. Having said this an important consideration is that in order to handcuff a resisting suspect you HAVE to put him against some kind of base. It doesn't matter if it is a car, a wall, the ground or even another officer. The ground/floor is ALWAYS present in arrest scenarios on this planet. As such, it is the most convenient to create a base in order to handcuff someone. Having said this it is important to realize that we are talking about arrest and control and resisting the same ... not fighting. (We'll come back to this). This demonstrate that officers have a completely different objective in mind when it comes to physical force. One that "submission" fighting is VERY much a part of. Which is why it was introduced into the LAPD's revised Arrest and Control Training. The fact of the matter is it can reasonably argued by BJJ players that 90% of all "fights" go to the ground BECAUSE they take them there. I've never met up with a grappler who didn't try -- and in some cases succeed -- to take me to the ground. If so, then this is a logical fallacy, just because 90% of all a grappler's fights go to the ground, doesn't mean that 90% of ALL fights go to the ground (all Hyundais are cars, not all cars are Hyundais). Let's return to the "one or more," technically speaking -- and by that I mean we're stretching it -- and see how someone can spin that. If I kick someone in the balls and run while he falls to his hands and knees, someone -- with a little bit of imagination and a lot of agenda -- can claim that "fight" went to the ground. This despite the fact that I am no longer there, much less engaging in further attacks on the person. Attacks that his grappling training "would have prepared him for." Yet, if someone was trying to pump the numbers this would be included. I have seen lots of altercations where one individual hits the deck. This is often where an altercation changes from a "fight" to victory (i.e. the end) or an assault (stomping). If the former, usually because other people break it up. If the latter, then it usually involves giving the downed person the boot, multiple people giving the boot or weapons. Almost NEVER did I see someone throw himself down to the ground to continue the "fight" with grappling. Another thing I've seen a lot is when someone is getting thrown a beating to rush forward and try to grab his attacker and hold his arm to stop the beating. There again, one or more on the deck, but the loser has already been pretty well decided. Which brings us to one of those particularly nasty questions that spindoctors so hate, namely "Would you define your terms?" and/or "Would you show us your methodology?" A number of years ago an anti-gun group published a report of "children killed by guns" The group's premise was that innocent children were being murdered because of ease of gun access. The group claimed that their source for the number was the CDC (Center for Disease Control). But the fact is, the numbers were outrageously high. Upon checking the methodology it was discovered that the group had 1) included suicides and 2) gone up to the age of 29 in their definition of "children." That is how you got the same numbers. Why this little side trip? Simple, "What does someone mean by "fights" in the statement of "90% of all fights go to the ground?" Are they talking about every incident of violence that occurs? Are they talking about Bubba and Billy Joe fighting over by the jukebox? Are they talking about defending yourself against a mentally ill, chemically addicted individual with a razor blade who is convinced you are Satan come to steal his soul? Or are they talking about MMA events? These aren't just things you need to ask, these are things you need to think about. Because there are situations where grappling is GRRRREAT! I mean it works right out of the box, as is, super cool, if-I-have-to-sit-on-drunken-Uncle-Albert-at-a-family-reunion there is absolutely NOTHING that works better. If I have to arrest and control, a must have tool, in the tool box. Would I have tried to use it to go up against the four Mexican gangmembers who tried to rob my mother and I years ago? Not only no, but hell no. Whoever quoted his guro quoting this information needs to ask their instructor, "Exactly what do you mean by 'Fights' when you say 90% of them go to the ground?" If he is a grappler, maybe it is true. Maybe 90% of his fights DID go to the ground. But that don't mean 90% of yours will. M --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 13:42:55 -0800 (PST) From: Manny California Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Stickfighitng at Hermann Park in Houston this Sunday To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hello ALL Escrima members, Our organizations is contemplating an Escrima stick-fighting tournament and the 1st and 2nd place winners will receive cash; it could be as much at $500 to $1,000 US dollars for the first place winner. Participants (fighters) must be 18-years old. This tournament will be different from other tournaments in that participants will have a choice, fighting with a long, short or double stick against an opponent who may have selected a different size stick. For example, we may have a match between a long-stick fighter against a short-stick fighter or a double-stick fighter against single-stick fighter. A match will compose of three minutes. To score a point a competitor has to hit with intention and accuracy and the hit has to be solid and validated by a majority of the assigned ring judges and referee. The competitors have to hit with such power that the hit would have been significant for the outcome in a fight without protective clothing. Each time a hit is acknowledge, the fighters will reset at the middle of the ring and wait for confirmation from the judges. The competitor who scores the most points shall be the winner of the match. All sticks will be provided by our organization. Participant may select to wear a minimum of protection but must be approved by the organization. Having said that, I have two questions for the members in hopes of getting some guidance: 1) Is there interest in this type of tournament? 2) What are the "pros and cons" of promoting a cash versus non-cash tournament? I would be interested in your comments. Daniel Arola wrote: Houston Stick Fighting Association's 1st combative meet on 11/26/2006(Sunday) There is this newly formed Martial Arts Weapons group called the Houston Stick Fighting Association. They will be hosting their 1st combative gathering at Hermann Park in the heart of the city near the museum, the zoo and medical center area in Houston Texas. The event will be held on Sunday, November 26, 2006 starting at 10:00 am til 12:00 pm. The HSFA is not limited to just the Filipino Kali/Arnis/Escrima players, but to all other MA weapons enthusiasts[Kendo/Shinai/Bokken, Staff, Naginata, tonfa, Chucks, lance, Jo, SCA Heavy Combat, ARMA swordplay, Amtgard, etc.] For more info about the HSFA, the web adress is http://houstonstickfighting.org I had just moved back to Houston after 20-plus months in Fayetteville, North Carolina from training FMA with some of the joes there, and it looked like I moved back at the right time. I am very happy to see the interest in martial arts weapons combat(FMA in particular) continue to grow and I am grateful for Johnathan Bolton to have started this association. Johnathan is also a student under Tim Mousel in Houston. Tim is also my instructor since 1993. Johnathan is an instructor at the Houston Martial Arts Academy located in downtown Houston. I'm quite sure the fights will be entertaining to say the least. Daniel DAMAG-INC [Daniel Arola Martial Arts Group Inc.] http://www.damag-inc.zoomshare.com --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 19:58:11 -0500 From: bgdebuque To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Groundfighting Philippine style Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net This is a true story which happened almost 20 years ago. A Lothario was once caught sharing a table with his favorite bar girl by the "Sugar Daddy" of the said girl in a seedy bar in Metro Manila. Mr. Sugar Daddy happened to be someone who is extremely possessive... and always armed. Without warning, Mr. Sugar Daddy drew his Beretta 92 and opened fire at Mr. Lothario, hitting him in the stomach. Clutching his wounded stomach, Mr. Lothario stood up and exited the bar in full flight. Mr. Sugar Daddy gave chase like a lion hell-bent on finishing-off his wounded prey. At this point in time, he had probably assumed that because Mr. Lothario scampered like a rat after being shot, he is unarmed. Mr. Sugar Daddy fired a few more shots at the fleeing Mr. Lothario, this time on the legs, to stop his flight to safety. Mr. Lothario fell to the ground like a sack after having both legs chewed under him by 9x19 rounds. He immediately assumed the equivalent of a BJJ "guard" position facing the on-rushing Mr. Sugar Daddy. By this time, the so far one-sided fight have shifted to the dimly-lit portion of the street outside the bar - and Mr. Lothario has unfortunately already drawn the 1911A1 tucked under his Hawaiian shirt. Apparently, the primary reason why he ran is to avoid engaging in a gunfight in a densely-packed bar. He may be an incorrigible womanizer, but hitting innocent bystanders to save his skin is not just acceptable to his personal "Code of Honor". Totally intoxicated with his initial success and distracted by the on-rushing "high" of the possibility of delivering coup-de-grace shots, Mr. Sugar Daddy totally failed to spot the drawn 1911A1 as he hastily approached the apparently bloodied, helpless and "grounded" Mr. Lothario. He was met by a double-tap to the chest of .45 ACP slugs and died on the spot. Mr. Lothario died in a hospital 3 days later of gall bladder failure... The bar girl probably married the first rich guy who came along and lived happily ever after...... =[:->] And they say that the FMA have few ground techniques.... =[:->] --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Pananandta@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 20:20:36 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] wrist weights Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net TJ I got arnis elbow using a 2 pound bahi. Suggest use weights once a week and light sticks the rest. Arnis elbow is excruciatingly painful. You would not be able to touch your thumb and index finger without pain. Mine lasted more than 8 months. Amante P. Marinas Sr. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest