Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:46:02 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #389 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Singapore Ni Tian Martial Art School (Guillaume Foucaud) 2. re: noteworthy instructors in Cabales Serrada Escrima (Jon Broster) 3. First to' discover' America (Ollie Batts) 4. Re: FMA's in the USA (Kes41355@aol.com) 5. Re: re: noteworthy instructors in Cabales Serrada Escrima (Ray) 6. Re: FMA in MAss (Beungood8@aol.com) 7. Krabi Krabong Double DVD (GioSEAMA@aol.com) 8. Re: re: noteworthy instructors in Cabales Serrada Escrima (Jonathan Kessler) 9. Re: re: noteworthy instructors in Cabales Serrada (Ray) 10. 6 or 12 (Ray) 11. Re: Singapore Ni Tian Martial Art School (jay de leon) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 06:36:39 +0100 From: "Guillaume Foucaud" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Singapore Ni Tian Martial Art School Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi, Let's get out of the USA and Philippines, here in Singapore, my French Master Fred Evrard (student of Jeff Espinous) opened a Kali School called "Ni Tian" 6 month ago. Based for the external part on a complete Philippino instruction associated with JKD and Wushu Boxing Style (Phoenix) from South of China, the internal aspect is composed of Qi Kong and Tai Shi, in order to develop energy and Qi balance. Ni Tian means " Two Skyes" (INTERNAL+EXTERNAL), and is unique in its style. We are mostly french, english and singaporean, already 29 students. It's a great interest for us to combine internal and external styles like it has always been through centuries in asia. I think, tell me if I'm wrong, that this makes the difference between martial art, which make of us "Artist" and Sport. Do you know some similar Kali school? If you pass by Singapore or if you are already living there, drop an email and come to visit us, it's gonna be a pleasure. See you soon Guillaume Foucaud --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 10:44:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Jon Broster To: Eskrima Digest Subject: [Eskrima] re: noteworthy instructors in Cabales Serrada Escrima Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Mark Wiley's first book on Serrada lists the following as having been promoted to master: Johnny Cabales Vincent Cabales Jimmy Tacosa Jaime Cabrera Lee Foster Ronnie Saturno Kimball Joyce (now Sultan Udin) Wade Williams Frank Rillamas Gabriel Asuncion Darren Tibon Jerry Preciado Khalid Khan Mark V Wiley Rey Tap Charles E Cadell III Obviously, there were many more who trained to a high level. I am aware that some dispute this list. It is also worth noting that many of Angles students do things slightly differently. I have definitely noticed this with Mrak Wiley and Khalid Khan. Jon "There's nothing more dangerous than a blunt knife" http://www.pecahan.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 10:53:38 +0000 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] First to' discover' America Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I thought it was the Vikings who first went across the oceans to 'America'? Still, unlike Columbus, who followed sometime later, they did at least have the sense to keep quiet about it! ;o) Only kidding guys! Pugil Of course this is dismissed by the Chinese that claim they were the first to cross the Pacific to the Americas. Bottom line, there is no proof to support either assertion of being first. Ray Terry --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Kes41355@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:44:30 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: FMA's in the USA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi all, In a message dated 12/20/2006 8:29:51 PM US Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: >>>This discussion is great because it opens up so many different points of view some based on historical fact some on personal experience. All to say....thank you all for the education. Although the "father" of eskrima in the USA may be a title that no one man can hold I think its safe to say that the Filipino Community as whole has given us in the USA a unique and beautiful gift in the form of FMA.<<< Absolutely, I love discussions like this. I am a big history buff, and we all learn so much about our chosen art when we share what we know of our collective backgrounds. Nearly every FMA player I've met over the years has been nothing but giving, open, and as eager to learn as the people they taught. >From what I've seen in my long time in the FMA's, the future of our art is in very, very capable hands. >>>Without the lifelong contributions of all these men and their students, and their students ( regardless of their relationships to each other ) we wouldn't be here today in this discussion. Thanks to all the masters, teachers, guros, students , organizations and most important the " MOTHERS" of those people who keep pushing FMA forward. Little steps big steps..it all counts.<<< Again, I wholeheartedly agree. We were given a beautiful gift when these arts came to our shores, and it is up to us now to protect and perpetuate them. We owe the past masters a deep debt. >>>Next question....what is the history of women who have achieved such standards in FMA? Were women in the Filipino community traditionally forbidden to practice self defense? In most of the articles and discussions I've read, I've heard little or nothing of high ranking women who have helped to promote FMA.<<< Well, off the top of my head, there was Princess Josephina, whom Floro Villibrille and Feliscimo Dizon considered to be their favorite teacher. And, Mary Tovar, an early member of the Cabales Stockton Eskrima group, and the first woman to be promoted to Instructor by Angel Cabales. And of course there is Graciela Casillas who studied Serrada Eskrima under Angel Cabales, and was also promoted to instructor by him. I have personally met Paula Inosanto, and I respect her ability as much as any man I know. The Filipino arts have historically been out of the public eye, and I believe this to be a major cause of why we don't hear more about the very talented FMA women stylists out there. Kim Satterfield (Don't let the name fool you. For those contributors here who don't know me, I am a guy) --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] re: noteworthy instructors in Cabales Serrada Escrima To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:01:19 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Mark Wiley's first book on Serrada lists the following as having been > promoted to master: > Johnny Cabales > Vincent Cabales > Jimmy Tacosa > Jaime Cabrera > Lee Foster > Ronnie Saturno > Kimball Joyce (now Sultan Udin) > Wade Williams > Frank Rillamas > Gabriel Asuncion > Darren Tibon > Jerry Preciado > Khalid Khan > Mark V Wiley > Rey Tap > Charles E Cadell III According to Vincent Cabales, the list that Wiley provides is incorrect. The correct list was on his website at cabales.com, but that site has now been down for almost two years. Also keep in mind how Angel did his Master certs. You received your cert when you paid him. You then were expected to complete your training. This was one of the practices that distanced him from his early students. Some paid for and received the cert, but never completed their training. Yet they still call themselves Masters of Serrada... And, again, according to Vincent at least one person on that list did not pay for the cert and did not complete their training. So the #12 spot, I think it is, is open. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:32:10 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: FMA in MAss Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I have a good friend of mine a little too far from me in Methuen,Mass and is looking for FMA instruction or at the very minimum a good combat oriented Martial Art. He is looking for that area or out along Rt 2 West as he lives in Templeton/Gardner Area. Salamat, Jack --__--__-- Message: 7 From: GioSEAMA@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:42:49 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Krabi Krabong Double DVD Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I will have a new double DVD set on Krabi Krabong shot entirely in thailand over an almost 6 year period out in roughly two weeks that details just the buddhai sawan method but shows some of the other methods of Krabi Krabong as well as footage from Cambodia and Burma sword arts. The site is http://www.buddhaisawanpath.com as well we are having a prebuy discount if anyone on the eskrima list wants to take advantage of that can email me at Blackdiamondcobra@yahoo.com. Later dvds will cover the other diverse KK systems. Vincent Giordano --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 10:02:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jonathan Kessler Subject: Re: [Eskrima] re: noteworthy instructors in Cabales Serrada Escrima To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Also keep in mind how Angel did his Master certs. You received your cert when you paid him. You then were expected to complete your training. This was one of the practices that distanced him from his early students. Ray, wasn't Suro Inay one of those early students, who opted for not receiving a Mastery cert because he disagreed with the "pay now, train later" philosophy? I think he and Angel reconciled later though, if I have that right. JK --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] re: noteworthy instructors in Cabales Serrada To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 10:38:26 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Also keep in mind how Angel did his Master certs. You received your cert > when you paid him. You then were expected to complete your training. This > was one of the practices that distanced him from his early students. > > Ray, wasn't Suro Inay one of those early students, who opted for not > receiving a Mastery cert because he disagreed with the "pay now, train > later" philosophy? I think he and Angel reconciled later though, if I > have that right. Yes, they did reconcile later. Angel offered him a Master's cert saying "Here, you earned it", but Mike did not accept it. But I think the main thing that split Angel from his early students, like Mike, was that when Mike et al were designing the syllabus for the Basic, Advanced and Master programs for Angel, Angel insisted on dramatically reducing the number of training hours required to actually earn a Master's cert. He wanted it to be so low that many of the early group left as a result. But I guess it was Angel's art so it was his to do with as he wished. This, I believe, is why some of that later group have characterized Serrada and easy and simple to completely learn, something that can be done with just a very few months of traning. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 10:49:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] 6 or 12 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Fyi... I just received an email from Anthony Davis indicating that my statement that he only learned serrada up thru angle 6 was incorrect. He states that he learned all 12 angles from Angel. He requested that I retract my statement, which I will not do. My info indicates that I am correct, but who knows... So in the spirit of Christmas, I share Anthony's statement with the group. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:22:47 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Singapore Ni Tian Martial Art School To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Monsier Foucaud: Congratulations on your new school. I have actually participated in a couple of seminars given by Jeff Espinous--very skilled guro and entertaining teacher with superb fighting/kickboxing skills. This is meant as constructive criticism. If you will claim lineage to an art/style/discipline from the Philippines, please use the descriptive words of "Filipino" or "Pilipino" or even "Philippine" but not "Philippino." "Filipino" is the anglicized word, and "Pilipino" is the pilipino word as there is no "f" in the Tagalog alphabet. More power to you and your organization. Jay de Leon www.filipinofightingartsintl.com Guillaume Foucaud wrote: Hi, Let's get out of the USA and Philippines, here in Singapore, my French Master Fred Evrard (student of Jeff Espinous) opened a Kali School called "Ni Tian" 6 month ago. Based for the external part on a complete Philippino instruction associated with JKD and Wushu Boxing Style (Phoenix) from South of China, the internal aspect is composed of Qi Kong and Tai Shi, in order to develop energy and Qi balance. Ni Tian means " Two Skyes" (INTERNAL+EXTERNAL), and is unique in its style. We are mostly french, english and singaporean, already 29 students. It's a great interest for us to combine internal and external styles like it has always been through centuries in asia. I think, tell me if I'm wrong, that this makes the difference between martial art, which make of us "Artist" and Sport. Do you know some similar Kali school? If you pass by Singapore or if you are already living there, drop an email and come to visit us, it's gonna be a pleasure. See you soon Guillaume Foucaud _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest