Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:55:03 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #391 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Mike Inay and Angel Cabales (Eagle556@aol.com) 2. Fred Evard in China (Jon Ward) 3. Books (Ollie Batts) 4. Re: Stockton Women Escrimadors (Djinji Brown) 5. Re: Re: CABALES--to D. Brown (jay de leon) 6. List down, warning #first (Ray) 7. Re: Re: Mike Inay and Angel Cabales (Ray) 8. International Martial Arts Association (Ed Peregrino) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Eagle556@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:37:44 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Mike Inay and Angel Cabales Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <<>> One of the main reasons that Mike split from Angel revolved around money. During the mid 70s Angel had linked up with an attorney that convinced Angel to charge more. When Angel told Mike that he had to pay $500 for his master's diploma things went down hill from there. Angel did eventually offer Mike his master's diploma not once but twice. The last time was in 1990 in Stockton. Mike and I visited Angel twice during this time period. During one of these visits we were accompanied by Emanuel Hart. Angel told Mike that he felt bad that a number of the earlier students to include Mike didn't receive their master's diploma. He then offered to rectify this situation for $500. Mike politely declined. However make no mistake Mike always greatly respected Angel and always considered that what he did as one of his two primary arts was Serrada, the other being of course Kadena De Mano (KDM). A funny story about his feelings for Serrada and Angel occurred around the same time period. Myself and Andre Green had gone to visit one of the current crop of Angel's students who was teaching in the Bay Area. We were watching him teach one of his students when during a break they asked if we would give a demonstration of what we did. As Andre and I always brought our sticks with us when "visiting" others we agreed. During the demonstration I overheard the student ask the instructor, "Are they doing the same thing that we are doing?" The instructor replied, "They are doing a different type of Serrada." When we got back home Mike asked us what had happened. I told him my impression of the instructor and he then asked, "Anything else happen Rob?" He knew by the expression on my face that something else had happened. I then told him the content of the conversation that I had overheard and he immediately called Angel to discuss the comments that were made as to whether Andre and I were doing Serrada. It was an interesting conversation. However the whole point of this is to reiterate that Mike always considered his Serrada to be Serrada. A number of things occurred over the years that prompted Mike to change or reorient various training and terminology. For example Mike renamed a number of things due to the constant threat of being sued for using certain names or terms. I always wondered about this. A person can sue someone for using a name but how does that person sue to get back the knowledge that he/she imparted to the person? Mike also, due to the seminar experience, started to put together various drills that he could then pass on in the seminar setting. A number of these were individual KDM techniques that Mike lumped together so that seminar students had some form of organized drills that they could practice at home. However Mike never expected the students to then replace various free form training with these drills as has happened now in some circles. Mike always considered that one of the most important skills an Eskrimador could possess was the ability to flow. Take care, Rob McDonald --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:34:08 -0800 (PST) From: Jon Ward To: Digest Eskrima Subject: [Eskrima] Fred Evard in China Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Jon Ward wrote: Hi Guys, Just a note on Fred. He's an outstanding martial artist and teacher. I would highly recommend meeting him if you get the chance. His website is www.nitien.com Jon Ward www.inayanmartialarts.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 12:28:06 +0000 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Books Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Anyone who writes a book (on anything) will always attract critics, armchair or otherwise. At least Wiley has made a contribution (several in fact) and those books, whether 100 per cent accurate or otherwise, have at least helped to raise the profile of, and interest in, the Filipino Martial Arts. Picking a title must be extremely difficult. The title needs to briefly describe (at least in part) what the subject matter is, and secondly to attract potential readers/purchasers to pick it up off the shelf in the first place. Often, all you see (at first) will be the title down the edge of the spine. That title may attract you to pull the book out, either all the way or, in my case, just enough to see the front cover. Now comes the second stage in the process of attracting you further. Does the cover look interesting enough to proceed onwards. If it does, you may then decide to read what's written on the back cover. You might then rifle through the pages, looking at the general layout, and then you might read one or two sections before deciding on whether to purchase it or not. History is a funny old subject. There are a myriad of 'truths', depending on whose telling the story. Without the ability of travelling back in time, we have to form our own opinions, and make our own judgements, based on what the author has presented to us, in relation to what we have previously read and been told by others. Pugil Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 14:29:19 -0800 From: Djinji Brown To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: CABALES Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net No disrespect to Mr. Wiley or any other author of martial arts text, but I disagree with the notion that the secrets of a martial discipline lie within a book. Its like the idea of taking martial arts/ self defense online, I understand the concept just dont agree with it. its just my opinion. I picked up Mr wiley's book on Serrada Escrima at a store in NYC, i flipped through it and wasnt impressed with the overall presentation of the book. I was really disappointed because I wanted to learn more about GM Cabales, but without the secrets thing attached to it. When i looked at the pages it was little text on GM Cabales life and a lots more texts describing still shots of various techniques within the system. I was very interested in reading more on the life and history of GM Antonio Illustrisimo and his system as well. I picked up "The secrets of Kali Illustrisimo" but I was again turned off by the claim of " secrets" . Q# 1. Is that in fact a good book perhaps I let my prejudgement fool me? Q#2. Is the "secrets of " prefix that covers many martial arts text a marketing tool geared towards the American and European market? D. Brown --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 06:21:12 -0800 From: Djinji Brown To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Stockton Women Escrimadors Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Mr. Reyes thanks for answering my question, and the history lesson. happy holidays . Djinji Brown.. On Friday, December 22, 2006, at 11:10PM, "Terrence David Reyes" wrote: >>>>>Well, off the top of my head, there was Princess Josephina, whom Floro >Villibrille and Feliscimo Dizon considered to be their favorite teacher. And, >Mary Tovar, an early member of the Cabales Stockton Eskrima group, and >the first >woman to be promoted to Instructor by Angel Cabales. And of course there is >Graciela<<<<< > >In Stockton you can add Manang Tenio, and there was also Manang Albina >Pasco. There were a few other Manangs like Emilia Carpo in Walnut >Grove who were said to know some escrima for self defense but calling >it a complete escrima system would be a stretch, however her husband >was a very well known fighter. She was the cook in the pear camp and >always had the itak close at hand, perhaps so no one would complain >about her terrible cooking. :) Angel always said his best and fastest >female escrimadors were the daughters of Gong Lee. For those who don't >know, Gong Lee is a chinese restaurant/buffet in Stockton that also >housed the Cabales Serrada Academy. The daughters of Dentoy Revillar >are also well versed and highly skilled. Recalling a demo Jeannine and >Jimmy did in Malolos, in Bulcan Province in 1976, her wearing only a >duster, tsinelas and a red panyo that had the crowd in complete awe >and calling for more. She took a strong #1 that glanced her head >pretty good in a full spar from Jimmy and she didn't even flinch! >Thanks for listening and Happy Holidays to all! > >Best Regards, >David Reyes >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 07:55:20 -0800 (PST) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: CABALES--to D. Brown To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net For a related commentary on your thoughts, please read the introductory (first three) paragraphs of the following article: http://www.filipinofightingartsintl.com/Publications/martial_arts/fma_books.html If you are not aware of it, one of the most prolific, most technical and foremost FMA authors is right in our midst, PG Mat Marinas, so maybe you can direct your suggestions to him. He might just end up writing the book you are looking for. Jay de Leon www.tipunan.com P.S. Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to y'all. Djinji Brown wrote: No disrespect to Mr. Wiley or any other author of martial arts text, but I disagree with the notion that the secrets of a martial discipline lie within a book. Its like the idea of taking martial arts/ self defense online, I understand the concept just dont agree with it. its just my opinion. I picked up Mr wiley's book on Serrada Escrima at a store in NYC, i flipped through it and wasnt impressed with the overall presentation of the book. I was really disappointed because I wanted to learn more about GM Cabales, but without the secrets thing attached to it. When i looked at the pages it was little text on GM Cabales life and a lots more texts describing still shots of various techniques within the system. I was very interested in reading more on the life and history of GM Antonio Illustrisimo and his system as well. I picked up "The secrets of Kali Illustrisimo" but I was again turned off by the claim of " secrets" . Q# 1. Is that in fact a good book perhaps I let my prejudgement fool me? Q#2. Is the "secrets of " prefix that covers many martial arts text a marketing tool geared towards the American and European market? D. Brown >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net (Eskrima) Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 08:23:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Eskrima] List down, warning #first Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just a warning that the list will be down most of the week of Christmas. HoHoHo Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Mike Inay and Angel Cabales To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 08:47:51 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > ... The instructor replied, "They are doing a different type of Serrada." One comment that has come up in the past is which era of student got the "real Serrada". Angel apparently tried to tell the later group that he had not taught all the aspects of Serrada to his early students, he had saved that for his last batch of students. Of course the fact was that when Angel was teaching in the mid and late 60s he was a healthy and younger man, quicker and stronger. The latter group of students saw a slower, older and ill man, something that age will bring to most all of us. During a meeting I put together between Mike Inay and Vincent Cabales I related a story from one of the later students. Something about how until the day he died, Angel was a strong and quick and precise as ever. And about how only days prior to his death, Angel was throwing this student around the room with extreme ease. Vincent laughed, and said, "No way! Dad could hardly get up out of his chair toward the end". He then thought a bit more and said, "Well, knowing student X, yes, Dad probably could have tossed him around the room." What we often see with the big name eskrimadors is that they tend to teach as long as they can, it is in their blood. But what they can do in later years is only a fraction of what they could do ten or twenty years earlier. And so they change what they teach as they don't have the physical ability to teach all the things they did in years past. No shame in that, it will happen to all of us unless we die long before our time... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Ed Peregrino" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:54:42 -0800 Subject: [Eskrima] International Martial Arts Association Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Kumusta po sa inyong lahat (Hello to everyone), First of all, I've been reading last week's topics about GM Cabales and the FMA history.  I am glad to see that the history of the art and the culture are being debated and discussed.  Eventhough some topics may not ever be proved since most are verbal history being passed along rather than written, but nevertheless reading about those topics and everyone's opinions are very interesting.  Being Pinoy myself, I am very happy that there are a lot more of those that are willing to learn about the culture as part of their FMA passion in comparison to those that believe that FMA training only consists of techniques (certainly no offense to those that believe this, this is just my personal opinion).  Secondly, I just wanted to ask this forum if anyone has heard or know about ADDI International Martial Arts Organization (www.add-i.org).  I was searching through the website and I ran into this organization.  I'm curious about this organization and would like to know more outside than what's being said in the website.  So, any opinion or comments in regards to this group would be appreciated.  It can either be through this ED or respond to me directly at kalied1@hotmail.com. Salamat po sa inyong lahat.  Maligayang pasko and manigong bagong taon!! (Thank you very much to all.  Merry Christmas and Happy New Year). Gumagalang, Ed Peregrino   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger! Get it now. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest