Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2006 02:58:28 -0800 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 13 #392 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2300 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Merry Christmas (Rocky) 2. Re: Books (Djinji Brown) 3. Re: Real Serrada (Eagle556@aol.com) 4. Stockton Revisited again (Terrence David Reyes) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Rocky" To: Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 14:33:33 -0500 Subject: [Eskrima] Merry Christmas Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Merry Christmas Everyone!! Rocky --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 12:21:03 -0800 From: Djinji Brown To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Books Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Yes Mr. Wiley's contributions to FMA cannot be disclaimed. The first book on the subject I bought was by him Filipino Martial Culture. I learned a lot from the book and I enjoyed the reading flow of the book ( a very important thing ) , which prompted me to look into others. My statement sounded like I judged a book by its cover, and I did not intend for it sound that way, but in fact thats how it sounded. Being raised by an Anthropologist and Librarian I was surrounded by a plethora of books on various subjects, and cultures, and I was always taught that history is one of those things can be different to different people. My mother is an avid researcher of Native American history , her reserach never end and her book list is ever growing... The ones recording history and the ones affected by it often have different points of view, and then there's the so called objective 3rd party view, Like the guy who won the fight and the one who lost and one or ones who observed. I enjoyed Filipino Martial Culture by Wiley for many reasons. because he made it clear many times in the text, that many of his findings were researched from an anthropological standpoint, not just a martial artist perspective. He also stated that a lot of findings although researched extensively were still somewhat inconclusive and he encouraged the reader to do more research and to question, and not to take everything he wrote as "the gospel" per se on FMA. I took from it that his research could serve as a primary reference point for the interested to look further into. I am not criticizing Mr. Wiley's works on a whole and since I didn't read his book on Serrada I have no grounds to criticize so for that I will apologize if I offended anyone, plus I have never written one book. I am a producer of records as well DJ and some of my songs people like more than others, some they dont like at all. As a musician we get as many critics as writers, and most of our critics are writers themselves ( my ex wife is a writer, and one of my greatest critics lol )...some of our critics know little or nothing about music and its processes , they just know if they like it or not. Thank you for sharing your thoughts Mr Batts and happy holidays to you and all. Kindly D. Brown On Saturday, December 23, 2006, at 11:11AM, "Ollie Batts" wrote: >Anyone who writes a book (on anything) will always attract critics, armchair >or otherwise. > >At least Wiley has made a contribution (several in fact) and those books, >whether 100 per cent accurate or otherwise, have at least helped to raise >the profile of, and interest in, the Filipino Martial Arts. > >Picking a title must be extremely difficult. The title needs to briefly >describe (at least in part) what the subject matter is, and secondly to >attract potential readers/purchasers to pick it up off the shelf in the >first place. > >Often, all you see (at first) will be the title down the edge of the spine. >That title may attract you to pull the book out, either all the way or, in >my case, just enough to see the front cover. > >Now comes the second stage in the process of attracting you further. Does >the cover look interesting enough to proceed onwards. If it does, you may >then decide to read what's written on the back cover. You might then rifle >through the pages, looking at the general layout, and then you might read >one or two sections before deciding on whether to purchase it or not. > >History is a funny old subject. There are a myriad of 'truths', depending on >whose telling the story. Without the ability of travelling back in time, we >have to form our own opinions, and make our own judgements, based on what >the author has presented to us, in relation to what we have previously read >and been told by others. > >Pugil > > > > > >Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 14:29:19 -0800 >From: Djinji Brown >To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: CABALES >Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > >No disrespect to Mr. Wiley or any other author of martial arts text, but I >disagree with the notion that the secrets of a martial discipline lie within >a book. >Its like the idea of taking martial arts/ self defense online, I understand >the concept just dont agree with it. its just my opinion. I picked up Mr >wiley's book on Serrada Escrima at a store in NYC, i flipped through it and >wasnt impressed with the overall presentation of the book. I was really >disappointed because I wanted to learn more about GM Cabales, but without >the secrets thing attached to it. When i looked at the pages it was little >text on GM Cabales life and a lots more texts describing still shots of >various techniques within the system. I was very interested in reading more >on the life and history of GM Antonio Illustrisimo and his system as well. >I picked up "The secrets of Kali Illustrisimo" but I was again turned off >by the claim of " secrets" . >Q# 1. Is that in fact a good book perhaps I let my prejudgement fool me? >Q#2. Is the "secrets of " prefix that covers many martial arts text a >marketing tool geared towards the American and European market? >D. Brown >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members >Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Eagle556@aol.com Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 18:39:47 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: Real Serrada Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net <<>> I have heard this numerous times from the newer generation of Angel's students. My first tendency is to start laughing however I have tried to be a gentler and kinder person in my advanced age. A few of my questions would be, "Why do you believe that this is so and what is the point of always bringing it up?" And also how in the world would someone prove or disprove this theory? I spent a lot of time with some of the earlier students. For that I will always be grateful. Most were very well grounded in basics. I didn't see a lot of difference in their techniques outside of personal interpretation of the technique. Same as I have always seen in Mike Inay students. Mike emphasized different things to different students at different times in his life. That is not to say that the older students learned something different or that it was better or worse than what the newer students learned. Perhaps the same is true with Angel. I did not work with him a great deal but I did notice that at different times, say the 1970s as opposed to 1990 he emphasized different things. Also a good instructor sees their students' strengths and weaknesses and helps them to improve taking those strengths and weaknesses into account. Mike did this with me and with everyone else that I saw him personally train. When I was training with Mike I was not by any means one of the quicker students. Mike spent a considerable time with me both in and outside of class preparing me to deal with the faster students such as Michael Amistoso, Garry Bowldes, and Freddy Madrid. I have always been somewhat clumsy and slow and Mike took pity on me and would work with me and then I would test out the stuff while "playing" with the other students. So I guess that the last generation of Angel's students feel the need to differentiate themselves from the older students and by claiming time and time again that the older students did not receive all of the training this is their way of doing this. But in the end what you have learned is not really as important as what you have passed on. Plus many students never really understand what is occurring in their training or why it is occurring at that particular moment. For example I know that a few on Mike's students always thought that I was hard on them. Over the years I have heard one in particular whine and whine so let me set the record straight. What they never realized is that Mike directed this. I rarely if ever did what I did in class without direction from Mike. For example one time I had returned to California (1985) for a visit after being gone for four years while serving in the Army. Mike decided that it would be a good idea for me to test a couple of the students to see if they could really and truly defend themselves against an unknown player. Originally I was going to test three of them but after playing with each of them for a while I told Mike that I didn't think that one of them was ready although he was the senior new student. So I tested two of them, Andre Green and Cory Takimoto. I started the testing off with the Inayan standard test and then moved to the non-standard items. We were near a garage so I started pulling implements from the garage and attacked them with everything from rakes to shovels to a chain saw. Both Andre and Cory held up extremely well. Even though at that time I had no part in their training I was extremely proud of both of them. After class Mike, me, and Kristi went to lunch and Mike couldn't stop raving about how well the two of them did and these comments continued for a long time. So in the end I guess what really matters is not what each generation has actually learned, for we will really never know that, but what Mike and others like him have left behind. Most of them have left behind a serious number of students that carry on the teaching of Eskrima. From backyards to actual schools all help in their own way. Hopefully most people will get beyond who learned what and who has what title and help pass on the art. Take care, Rob McDonald --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 17:03:01 -0800 From: "Terrence David Reyes" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Stockton Revisited again Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >>>>>Angel was a strong and quick and precise as ever. And about how only days prior to his death<<<<< I got to see him quite regularly while he was visiting his cousin, Manong Santos Cabales who lived next door . He was also a Minister and giving Angel spiritual guidance during his last months. Indeed he was not the same man physically. In his days of glory, in my minds eye I can still see him harking those rattan love seats on his back, in 100 plus degree weather, up a steep two story incline, balancing on a plank, in street clothes , when we were working unloading trucks for Aunty Luming Imutan's Tamaraw Imports store. It took two of us just to lift the thing and there was Angel double timing us and passing us by his lonesome. This is the kinda stuff that makes legends. :) Best Regards, David Reyes- --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest