Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 02:58:32 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #102 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send Eskrima mailing list submissions to eskrima@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Eskrima digest..." <<---- The Sudlud-Inayan Eskrima/Kali/Arnis/FMA mailing list ---->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. school of hard knocks (MSKBEvans@aol.com) 2. Re: school of hard knocks (Mike Casto) 3. Re: school of hard knocks (jay de leon) 4. Re: school of hard knocks (Mike Casto) 5. FMA in Lexington, KY (nephalim1@aim.com) 6. Re: FMA in Lexington, KY (Mike Casto) 7. Re: FMA in Lexington, KY (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: MSKBEvans@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 08:00:22 EDT To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] school of hard knocks Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net If the Moros fought the Spanish I am sure that both sides learned a lot about each others fighting methods. At least the men that survived the battles learned something. The ones that died probably learned things too, but did not get a chance to pass them on. <<<>>>> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 10:59:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] school of hard knocks To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Also, in the original quote, the Moros were never mentioned. It just "Filipino Eskrima" - this could just as easily represent the northern/central PI as it could the southern. The northern/central PI were ruled by Spain from ~1533 - 1899. I think the northern/central PI are far more likely to contain "vestiges" of fencing. Material from the southern PI would certain have been influenced by the Spanish methods but I don't think these really count as "vestiges" of the original. The influences in the southern PI would more commonly be remnants of what the Moros found effective to counter the Spanish methods - and may or may not have had any similarities to the Spanish fencing methods. In the northern/central PI, people would have been exposed, in many ways, to the Spanish methods - whether it was actually learning from the Spaniards, like when working for them as a soldier/sailor, just watching their methods when they trained/fought, etc. Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: "MSKBEvans@aol.com" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:00:22 AM Subject: [Eskrima] school of hard knocks If the Moros fought the Spanish I am sure that both sides learned a lot about each others fighting methods. At least the men that survived the battles learned something. The ones that died probably learned things too, but did not get a chance to pass them on. <<<>>>> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 11:24:22 -0700 (PDT) From: jay de leon Subject: Re: [Eskrima] school of hard knocks To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Good point about "vestiges" from the northern/central Philippines. The Spaniards did employ Filipino mercenaries. But in the southern Philippines, and this would be the other side of the coin of Moros learning from combat with the Spaniards as you pointed out, weren't some Visayan villages defended from marauding Moros by locals aided and trained by Spanish friars (and Spanish officers) with knowledge of Spanish fencing? Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com Mike Casto wrote: Also, in the original quote, the Moros were never mentioned. It just "Filipino Eskrima" - this could just as easily represent the northern/central PI as it could the southern. The northern/central PI were ruled by Spain from ~1533 - 1899. I think the northern/central PI are far more likely to contain "vestiges" of fencing. Material from the southern PI would certain have been influenced by the Spanish methods but I don't think these really count as "vestiges" of the original. The influences in the southern PI would more commonly be remnants of what the Moros found effective to counter the Spanish methods - and may or may not have had any similarities to the Spanish fencing methods. In the northern/central PI, people would have been exposed, in many ways, to the Spanish methods - whether it was actually learning from the Spaniards, like when working for them as a soldier/sailor, just watching their methods when they trained/fought, etc. Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: "MSKBEvans@aol.com" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 8:00:22 AM Subject: [Eskrima] school of hard knocks If the Moros fought the Spanish I am sure that both sides learned a lot about each others fighting methods. At least the men that survived the battles learned something. The ones that died probably learned things too, but did not get a chance to pass them on. <<>>>> ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:38:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] school of hard knocks To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net I believe so - been a while since I read about this stuff. But I think it boils down to defining "vestige" from the original quote. If you take "vestige" to mean evidence of the original then, yes, some of the Moro methods - developed to counter the Spanish & Spanish influenced methods - would count as "vestiges." And that's certainly a valid definition of "vestige." Personally, though, I reflexively define "vestige" as a remnant of the original - which is also a valid definition. With this definition it's more likely to find the "vestiges" in northern/central material where they were more likely to have incorporated some of the actual material from the Spaniards. Of course, this is entire discussion is largely conjecture since everyone who would have firsthand knowledge is dead and there was little written about it at the time so it's mostly history from oral tradition which, of course, is even more prone to "the telephone game" than the written word :-D Mike ----- Original Message ---- From: jay de leon To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 2:24:22 PM Subject: Re: [Eskrima] school of hard knocks Good point about "vestiges" from the northern/central Philippines. The Spaniards did employ Filipino mercenaries. But in the southern Philippines, and this would be the other side of the coin of Moros learning from combat with the Spaniards as you pointed out, weren't some Visayan villages defended from marauding Moros by locals aided and trained by Spanish friars (and Spanish officers) with knowledge of Spanish fencing? Jay de Leon www.filipinomartialartsmuseum.com Mike Casto wrote: Also, in the original quote, the Moros were never mentioned. It just "Filipino Eskrima" - this could just as easily represent the northern/central PI as it could the southern. The northern/central PI were ruled by Spain from ~1533 - 1899. I think the northern/central PI are far more likely to contain "vestiges" of fencing. Material from the southern PI would certain have been influenced by the Spanish methods but I don't think these really count as "vestiges" of the original. The influences in the southern PI would more commonly be remnants of what the Moros found effective to counter the Spanish methods - and may or may not have had any similarities to the Spanish fencing methods. In the northern/central PI, people would have been exposed, in many ways, to the Spanish methods - whether it was actually learning from the Spaniards, like when working for them as a soldier/sailor, just watching their methods when they trained/fought, etc. Mike --__--__-- Message: 5 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:35:41 -0400 From: nephalim1@aim.com Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in Lexington, KY Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Does anyone know of FMA instructors in the Lexington, KY area? Thanks in advance for the help. Jose ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:49:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Casto Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMA in Lexington, KY To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Check out Analytical Fighting Systems: http://afsacademy.com Mike Casto ----- Original Message ---- From: "nephalim1@aim.com" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 6:35:41 PM Subject: [Eskrima] FMA in Lexington, KY Does anyone know of FMA instructors in the Lexington, KY area? Thanks in advance for the help. Jose ________________________________________________________________________ Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection. _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 7 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMA in Lexington, KY To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:41:09 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Does anyone know of FMA instructors in the Lexington, KY area? Thanks > in advance for the help. I have some instructors under me in the Ashland area, but that isn't all that close to Lexington. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest