Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:14:03 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #105 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Guns (Ollie Batts) 2. Tuhon Bill McGrath UK seminars (iPat) 3. Re: Guns (Ray) 4. Re: Guns (Steve Ames) 5. Re: John Farnam's comments (Joseph Rusnak) 6. The Mass-Shooting Puzzle (Eskrima-FMA) 7. RE: The Mass-Shooting Puzzle (Leo Daher) 8. RE: The Mass-Shooting Puzzle (Jeremiah Hosch) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:55:38 +0100 From: Ollie Batts To: Subject: [Eskrima] Guns Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net So, playing Devil's Advocate here... ...would you have everyone in the US carry a gun around with them and rely on who is quickest to the draw, and most accurate with their shot(s)? What about those people who have a short fuse, or who are currently taking counselling (like our Korean friend), or who are on medication to control their schizophrenia, etc. Do you also allow them the 'right to bear arms? And what happens when the red mist comes down, after you nudge some angry person's arm and spill their beer, or when you just happen to pull into that one remaining parking space at the shopping mall ahead of them, for example. Do you simply trust that your reactions and aim will be better than theirs? Isn't that a step back in time to the days of the Old West? Pugil Comments by John Farnam... ********************************** 16 Apr 07 Incident in VA: As details of today's murder spree (no, it not a "tragedy" It's a crime!) in VA slowly trickle out, several facts are not in dispute: (1) The perpetrator carried firearms onto a college campus in flagrant and contemptuous defiance of existing "rules" prohibiting guns on campus. Such rules were obviously a "deterrent" only to those who don't commit crimes anyway. (2) Every innocent person who was shot was, at the time, unarmed and defenseless. There were no armed, good people physically present as murders were being committed. No one in a position to stop these crimes had the ability to confront the perpetrator with lethal force. And, nothing less was, or would have been, effective! (3) Armed police responded aggressively, courageously, and about as fast as they've ever going to. Nonetheless, all murders had already been completed by the time they arrived. They did not get there in time to prevent a single one. They never fired a shot! (4) With all recent, similar incidents, the foregoing has been the pattern. The usual "solutions" are predictably being regurgitated by leftist politicians and media socialists, ranging from airport-like security at the entrance to all educational buildings, to a camera on every corner! No one dares mention the only solution that can work, or has ever worked: good people, armed. To naive grasseaters, such a thing is beyond imagination! Real Americans, however, are not waiting for assorted political gasbags to, once again, make their tired case for a Soviet-style police-state. I just talked with a friend who is a large gun retailer in CO. Today was his busiest, single sales day in several years. People flooded his store and carried away nearly every gun and round of ammunition he had in stock! Americans are weary of hearing about government "security plans." They are putting together their own, personal "security plan!" Our Second Amendment, the original "Homeland Security," is alive and well, except in designated "Criminal Empowerment Zones," like college campuses! ********* --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:35:57 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Tuhon Bill McGrath UK seminars Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Tuesday April 24 Aberdeen www.amag.org.uk Wednesday 25th London - Eric Liddell Sports Centre Mottingham £30 advance/£35 on the day. 7 pm - 10 pm. www.karasackali.co.uk Thursday 26th Northampton ewen@compuserve.com -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Guns To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 05:24:40 -0700 (PDT) From: rterry@idiom.com (Ray) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net > So, playing Devil's Advocate here... > > ...would you have everyone in the US carry a gun around with them and rely > on who is quickest to the draw, and most accurate with their shot(s)? Everyone? No. > [snip] > > Isn't that a step back in time to the days of the Old West? The old west is frequently and incorrectly referred to as the Wild West. History shows us it was actually more like the Mild West. The Wild West mostly existed only in the dime novels of the day and latter day movies. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:33:49 -0400 From: Steve Ames To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Guns Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 11:55:38AM +0100, Ollie Batts wrote: > So, playing Devil's Advocate here... > > ...would you have everyone in the US carry a gun around with them and rely > on who is quickest to the draw, and most accurate with their shot(s)? Not sure what you mean by rely? What do I rely on in the present scenario? > What about those people who have a short fuse, or who are currently taking > counselling (like our Korean friend), or who are on medication to control > their schizophrenia, etc. Do you also allow them the 'right to bear arms? Short answer is yes. Being under medical care doesn't take away any of your rights unless a court orders it (due process and what). > And what happens when the red mist comes down, after you nudge some angry > person's arm and spill their beer, or when you just happen to pull into that > one remaining parking space at the shopping mall ahead of them, for example. > Do you simply trust that your reactions and aim will be better than theirs? ? I trust that most people are not murderers. I trust that simply putting a gun in their hands won't make them so. I further trust that _most_ people's sense of self preservation will tell them that going to prison forever over spilt beer makes no sense. By and large most people are pretty responsible. > Isn't that a step back in time to the days of the Old West? Isn't this the standard anti-gun argument? When Florida adopted the castle doctrine a few years ago, "Gun Control" advocates fortold that the streets would be filled with gunfire and shootouts reminiscent of the wild west. We're still waiting. I'm also waiting for one of these gun control advocates to point out successful legislation. There's plenty of evidence going the other way that gets ignored on a rather frequent basis. More laws doesn't equal less crime. On an esrkima-ish note... countries that have adopted strict anti-gun laws have also adopted, or are considering, laws severely limiting blades as well. -steve --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:47:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Rusnak To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] Re: John Farnam's comments Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net >> For those that do not know, John Farnam is an >> excellent firearms and defensive tactics >> instructor. I've attend his courses and recommend >> him highly. Too bad he can't make his points without resorting to name-calling. I'd also like to point out that college students don't always make the best decisions, and have been known to over-consume alcohol and other substances that could affect their judgment. It's a downside that needs to be considered. Joe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:08:54 -0700 From: Eskrima-FMA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Mass-Shooting Puzzle Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Just the last two paras from a opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal... The Mass-Shooting Puzzle... "If a citizen accepts that there's no electoral majority in America for taking away people's guns, then the alternative is to consider how to make the law more conducive to better outcomes in cases like Cho Seung-Hui's. Dozens of states have acted to expand a citizen's right to carry a concealed weapon. The result has not been an entire populace going around armed and engaging in firefights over every fender bender. Just the opposite according to research by economists John Lott Jr. and William Landes -- few shooters seem to be looking for an encounter with an armed opponent and such crimes are rarer in concealed-carry states. "After all, some people are prepared, at their own expense, to obtain a gun, training and a concealed-carry permit. This is likely to include people who wouldn't have thought of arming themselves except when daily activity throws them unavoidably into proximity to somebody who makes them rationally afraid. If society can't process and react to warning signs given off by such people collectively, an alternative is to expand the opportunity for individuals to process and react to them personally. -- Ray Terry Sudlud Eskrima eskrima.fma.digest@gmail.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Leo Daher" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [Eskrima] The Mass-Shooting Puzzle Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:20:45 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Even if there was "an electoral majority in America for taking away people's guns", that wouldn't be a good idea since criminals and the insane don't obey those laws anyway. I was living in Brazil in 1999 when a mentally disturbed college student went to a movie theater with a submachine gun and shot at the audience, killing three people and wounding five. Brazil has a draconian gun legislation, and it's impossible to legally purchase the firearm used in that crime. The student bought it from the same drug dealer that used to sell him cocaine. Fast forward to 2002, at the Appalachian School of Law, here in the US, when a deranged individual started a shooting rampage. After killing three and wounding three more, the criminal was confronted by two students who had retrieved handguns from their cars. Faced with meaningful resistance, he dropped his weapon and was then subdued. The lesson is clear: allowing those willing and able to exercise their right to self-protection is a better bet than trying to impose yet more repressive laws. "Praise be that which toughens" - Nietzsche -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eskrima-FMA Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Mass-Shooting Puzzle Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:08:54 -0700 Just the last two paras from a opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal... The Mass-Shooting Puzzle... "If a citizen accepts that there's no electoral majority in America for taking away people's guns, then the alternative is to consider how to make the law more conducive to better outcomes in cases like Cho Seung-Hui's. Dozens of states have acted to expand a citizen's right to carry a concealed weapon. The result has not been an entire populace going around armed and engaging in firefights over every fender bender. Just the opposite according to research by economists John Lott Jr. and William Landes -- few shooters seem to be looking for an encounter with an armed opponent and such crimes are rarer in concealed-carry states. "After all, some people are prepared, at their own expense, to obtain a gun, training and a concealed-carry permit. This is likely to include people who wouldn't have thought of arming themselves except when daily activity throws them unavoidably into proximity to somebody who makes them rationally afraid. If society can't process and react to warning signs given off by such people collectively, an alternative is to expand the opportunity for individuals to process and react to them personally. -- Ray Terry Sudlud Eskrima eskrima.fma.digest@gmail.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Jeremiah Hosch" To: Subject: RE: [Eskrima] The Mass-Shooting Puzzle Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:53:41 -0500 Organization: Strategic Defense Systems Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Great article. Just to add my 2 cents. If you take away the American right to law biding citizens to own and carry a hand gun (or guns in general) then the only people that will have a firearm is the ones that are out to cause harm and kill. JJ Hosch Strategic Defense Systems, JKD/Kali silat -----Original Message----- From: Eskrima-FMA [mailto:eskrima.fma.digest@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:09 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Mass-Shooting Puzzle Just the last two paras from a opinion piece in today's Wall Street Journal... The Mass-Shooting Puzzle... "If a citizen accepts that there's no electoral majority in America for taking away people's guns, then the alternative is to consider how to make the law more conducive to better outcomes in cases like Cho Seung-Hui's. Dozens of states have acted to expand a citizen's right to carry a concealed weapon. The result has not been an entire populace going around armed and engaging in firefights over every fender bender. Just the opposite according to research by economists John Lott Jr. and William Landes -- few shooters seem to be looking for an encounter with an armed opponent and such crimes are rarer in concealed-carry states. "After all, some people are prepared, at their own expense, to obtain a gun, training and a concealed-carry permit. This is likely to include people who wouldn't have thought of arming themselves except when daily activity throws them unavoidably into proximity to somebody who makes them rationally afraid. If society can't process and react to warning signs given off by such people collectively, an alternative is to expand the opportunity for individuals to process and react to them personally. -- Ray Terry Sudlud Eskrima eskrima.fma.digest@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest