Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:55:02 -0700 From: eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: Eskrima digest, Vol 14 #114 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: eskrima-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: fma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: Eskrima-FMA discussion forum, the premier FMA forum on the Internet. 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Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. 2400 members. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000). See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima/FMA digest at http://MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Guns (Buz Grover) 2. The Americans' 2nd Amendment, Why and How (James Judy) 3. Re: Guns - and mention of the Philippines (Felipe Jocano) 4. Re: Guns, Philippines, Teachers (Felipe Jocano) 5. Re: Guns, Philippines, Teachers (Felipe Jocano) 6. Re: (no subject) (JOHN SABILLA) 7. Re: UK Sword Ban!?! (iPat) 8. RE: guru, massguru, tuhon (Wieneke, Myron) 9. FMA thoughts on Tactical situations (Lawrence, Marc J.) 10. Re: (no subject) (Steve Ames) 11. Re: Re: Titles (Michael Gallagher) 12. Re: FMA thoughts on Tactical situations (RJ Garcia) 13. Virginian University Incident. (Peter Gow) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Buz Grover Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Guns Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 00:46:10 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Michael Kolbic wrote: > Having said that, the only stats comparing like with like was > an article in New England Journal of Medicine which compared gun > homicides > per capita in Seattle and Vancouver, there being 7-times less in > the latter. Ah yes, one of Dr. Kellermann's statistic skewing specials. Short response is that study only went looking for one answer--difference in gun laws--and failed to control for other factors. A succinct critique can be found here: http://teapot.usask.ca/cdn-firearms/Suter/med-lit/seattle.html With a more complete examination here: http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Mags/The-Failure-of-Canadian-Gun-Control.htm Regards, Buz Grover --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:06:09 -0700 (PDT) From: James Judy To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [Eskrima] The Americans' 2nd Amendment, Why and How Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Had to be redundant, but I tried to admit this & didn't see it posted. Here's a good article on our rights and how we got them. "We don’t need no steenking 2nd Amendment" by John Silveira http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/silveira58.html And here are two articles from the same sight from Massad Ayoob: In time of war: The Israeli answer to terrorism http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob81.html Armed Civilians can help Fight Terrorism http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob90.html I think that world peace would be wonderful, and I would love for the day to come that we would never have to fear a neighbor, but I feel that that day will never come, at least in my lifetime. With that in mind, I plan on my daughters being prepared to meet life's worst. Pistols, shotguns, rifles, blades, Kali, Jujutsu, Pentjak Silat. Whatever I have that they need to survive the day. And I certainly plan on educating them on their rights in life, whether the current administration or government honors them or offends them. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:35:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Guns - and mention of the Philippines To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi Michael; No problem, brother. I wasn't offended, just wanted to share what I know and see at this present time. PG Mat Marinas has some interesting stories from when he was teaching in Adamson University in Manila (I was a kid in the time of martial law). Bot --- Michael Gallagher wrote: > At 07:52 AM 4/21/2007, you wrote: > >Hi; > > > >As a citizen of the Philippines, living here all my > >life in the urban jungle called Metro Manila, I > >couldn't help but react to this statement. > > Sorry; didn't mean to offend. Thanks for the > correction. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:52:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Guns, Philippines, Teachers To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi PG Mat; Hi Manong Jay; PG Mat, your story about times back then was interesting. It brought back memories - I was a kid of about seven years when martial law was declared. Good thing your colleagues weren't arrested by the Metrocom during that time - maybe they had permits or connections? Anyway, my mom taught chemistry in Adamson University and she told me stories of how during that time, the cops came and seized many of the chemicals from the main lab because they might be used in making bombs. Years later, when martial law was lifted, guns had become cheaper and easier to acquire. During a time when rumbles between fraternities became common, some students hollowed out their chemistry textbooks and smuggled their pieces into the campus. .38s, .45s, etc. Today, things aren't as volatile anymore as they were back in the 70s. Guns are expensive again - but then again so is everything else. In today's Metro Manila, not as many people have concealed weapons of any sort anymore. But the old laws concerning concealed weapons from the martial law era still remain in force today, not that enforcement is always consistent. And of course there are the exceptions in form of permits and licenses to carry, etc. Still, the memories... I think what helped in your case was that as far as the student community was concerned, everyone knew what you did in your spare time and didn't want to mess with you. :-) For everyone: Robert Heinlein was quoted in this discussion as saying "An armed society is a polite society." Given what I see today in my own culture, I would suggest that the quote be qualified in that for as long as people agree to be polite while armed... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 23:57:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Felipe Jocano Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Guns, Philippines, Teachers To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Hi PG Mat; I wrote a rather lengthy reply to your post earlier and just now I remembered that here in the University of the Philippines, faculty can be issued permits to carry guns on campus. How about that :-) it's a little known rule (and now thanks to me everyone else knows about it) - unless it's been revoked during the meantime. Bot --- Pananandta@aol.com wrote: > Hi, > > I taught chemical engineering at Adamson University > in Manila from 1963 to > 1973. > > My teaching from 1963 to September 1972 was > uneventful, politics wise - > until martial law was imposed on the country. From > September 1972 on there was a > lot of student unrest in the universities in and > around Manila. I had two > co-teachers at Adamson who carried .45s in their > briefcases. I had two friends > who were teaching at another university in Manila > who had magnums. While > their guns were always concealed, they became common > knowledge in their > respective universities and perhaps prevented some > confrontations with students. But > of course very few students can afford to buy guns. > > In my case, I carried low-tech weapons - a balisong > in my shirt pocket and a > 20-inch pointer made from anahaw (bahi) which is > really designed as a > weapon. I had also done aikido demonstrations during > the Annual Foundation > Celebration at the university and many knew I was > also competing in stick fighting > tournaments. > > At one time, the students went on strike and > wouldn't let teachers teach. > They banged at the walls and tthe teachers had to > give up. Nobody came by my > room. I had my regular class. > > For those who want to become teachers, it will do > you good to take up the > FMA. Of course, one cannot parry a bullet. However, > many confrontations - I read > in newspapers in classrooms in America - do not > involve guns with teachers > getting verbally abused and physically assaulted. > > While the FMA might not be the answer to all self > defense situations, it > will buy you time until help arrives. > > Amante P. Marinas Sr. > > > > In a message dated 4/21/2007 11:56:14 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > eskrima-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > Hi; > > As a citizen of the Philippines, living here all my > life in the urban jungle called Metro Manila, I > couldn't help but react to this statement. > > Not everyone you meet on the street carries knives > all > the time on them. The cops hassle you really fierce > if > they spot you with a knife. That's why there are > laws > regulating knife length - the authorities are > supposed > to consider anything over 6 inches to be illegal to > carry on your person outside of your residence or > place of work, especially if your work requires the > use of knives, i.e., at the meat section of the wet > market. But just because there's a knife length > rule > doesn't mean that you're exempt from hassle if the > cops find even a shorter knife on you. > > As for politeness - perhaps that reflects more a > cultural norm which emphasizes harmony in public > places, and in the urban setting, with strangers. > Patience is a virtue - but there are limits. That > doesn't mean however that there are no instances of > people being upset and going on a shooting or > stabbing > spree. We do have them, and yes, access to weapons > is > a key element in these incidents. > > You have equated an armed society with a polite > society - but that is not true everywhere. It's > election time (for senators) in our country, and > already there have been a number of election related > killings, many of which are still under > investigation > (for whatever good that may do - the killers are > never > found). Every once in a while, somebody gets shot > in > an incident involving alcohol and/or an argument. As > I > write this, there is still a simmering inter > village > (we call them barangay) conflict in some parts of > the > country, and firearms and ambushes are part of the > equation. In several parts of the country, there is > a > strong trade in illegally obtained guns, mostly > used > to settle disputes or intimidate somebody. Gun > permits > are expensive and so are guns, thus encouraging the > situation. Accessibility to guns (or other weapons) > doesn't always mean politeness as a result. It may > mean the guy you jostled now may be polite at the > present but will shoot or stab you later when you're > not looking. > > I'm not speaking here for your culture or society - > I > simply want to share what I see here in my own. We > are > polite because that is expected of us - those who > violate this rule are dealt with later (in many > cases). But from what I've seen, although I > mentioned > guns above, even carrying knives is no guarantee of > politeness. We have a different set of cultural > rules, > including those involving weapons, that I believe > limits the applicability of your phrase. > > I don't want to give the impression either that > this > is a wild wild west frontier, as some annoying > articles (yes they were about FMA) implied. It's > generally peaceful here (but watch your wallet) - > and > many people don't feel the need to carry weapons > all > the time, including knives. About the only ones I > know > who carry them (knives and sticks) around most of > the > time - are martial artists, especially FMAers. Even > then if you meet a guy on the street carrying a > stick, > chances are he doesn't know FMA and its an anti-dog > amulet ;-) > > Bot > > > > > > > > ************************************** See what's > free at http://www.aol.com. > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:59:57 -0400 From: JOHN SABILLA To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] (no subject) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Read your post and it is easy to say things could have been done diff. that they could have mobbed and disarmed him. but you must take into consideration the mental state of the people at the time.. And that even with training someone coming into a room and opening fire puts a different spin on things. It easy to say lets have the teachers trained.. and 2 yrs. of federal service for all H.S. grads may do the trick. But you still have the X factor which is the each persons psyche and how they will react to that kind of scenario. John TenDigitTouch wrote: > I think it is sad that those who read this list just let it pass that people (our kids) need to be guided to take an active role in defending themselves, or risk dying. When someone replied to my last post that it is just impractical to teach 30,000 people on a college campus how to defend themselves, I was surprised. I am sure the terrorists love to read that kind of posting, Especially when no one takes exception. > > No one else commented that just a few things different could result in a mob of people being able to disarm and subdue one person that had a gun and was killing people. (Yeah, maybe not it this situation, but maybe in the next one) Remember the post about flight 93. > > According to the media, there will be a next one - massacre at a school. Doesn't it piss you off that people just say stuff like its too hard or costs too much to train that many people. I'm not asking for years of FMA, just more than email. Some ideas to try when you are desperate, and someone is shooting your friends, coworkers, at you, or your classmates, and you are all unarmed. For crying out loud we had a church shot up in Fort Worth a few years ago, and it was full of people. > > Maybe if we in the US required all high school grads to serve 2 years of some kind of federal service, those students would have been better prepared, I don't knoow. But, no, as a society it's too hard to train our children to think and act defensively? What horse hocky. > > So go ahead and keep talking about bearing arms til this happens again. We need to teach our people how to think and react, and saying it is too hard is not going to cut it. At least someone could try some brainstorming. Yeah flac jackets are expensive. to put 5 in the back of every classroom is probably ridiculous, but maybe not. who would volunteer to put one on and try and tackle someone with a gun? but it's a thought. it's better than talking about freakin gun control ad nauseum. > > What are you telling your kids to do if someone shows up at school and starts shooting? How can we do better? We need to do better, now. Right now. > > Rp > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:17:39 +0100 From: iPat To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] UK Sword Ban!?! Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net after the recent cricket performances you wont get much support with the cricket bat part...; ) On 4/22/07, James Judy wrote: > That's what they get for starting on that slippery > slope of taking away their citizen's right to > self-protection. Citizens of the U.K., rise up and > shout against this before they start making cricket > bats & metal cooking utensils illegal! > > -- Pat Davies www.amag.org.uk --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Wieneke, Myron" To: "'eskrima@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [Eskrima] guru, massguru, tuhon Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:33:01 -0400 Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Literal translation Guro - teacher Masguro - this is a weird one, don't believe it's a real work, looks like some sort of weird conjungation. Anyway, when you put mas in front of an adjective, you increase the level of what its describing (ie superlative adjective). Example, marunong (smart or knowledgeable), masmarunong (smarter or more knowledgeable), pinakamarunong (smartest or most knowledgeable). I'm guessing it some sort of extension of this to describe a better teacher. Tuhon - not really sure, outside of FMA, I vaguely remember hearing it before but can't put my finger on the exact meaning. Regards, Myron -----Original Message----- From: rterry@idiom.com [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:50 PM To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] guru, massguru, tuhon > Can anyone tell me the difference between guru,massguru and tuhon. Guro/Guru = I like titles Masguro = I love titles Tuhon = Lordy, how I love titles :) > and how can you tell if the title is real or self promotion? Very difficult. > I have found in the karate field that most people calling themselves > master are usually not. Often very true. > Also any body have any information on massguru greg alland. Nothing good to say.. GrandMaster/Sensei/Guro/Datu Ray Terry :) rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net ============================================================================== Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.credit-suisse.com/legal/en/disclaimer_email_ib.html ============================================================================== --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 06:59:07 -0700 From: "Lawrence, Marc J." To: Cc: Subject: [Eskrima] FMA thoughts on Tactical situations Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net To All, After listening to the events that occurred in Virginia at the school shooting, I know there will be great rush by bureaucrats to try and create more laws. All the laws in place did not stop this guy. Think about this, he committed a felony by having firearms on the Campus a crime in Virginia. So how do you stop people like this? 1. Stop teaching young people to be victims and teach them to fight back right away. (the media & schools likes show/teach young people to be victims) Offer practical martial arts that teaches how almost anything can be used as weapon. One of my friends that teaches FMA Arnold Noche does this for Womens self defense. I strongly believe that Filipino Martial Arts offers this when offered in the complete version of stick, knife and empty hands. Currently at many US Colleges & US Public Schools martial arts are looked at negatively, this because many people feel threaten by anyone who can fight. Friends of mine have been escorted off of a College campus after giving a FMA Demo because of the Eskrima sticks by the Campus Law Enforcement. It was the College that asked them to show FMA too! Teach young people to fight with anything at hand. Teach them the principle of guluhin- sneaky distractions when fighting. It is amazing what happens when crowd attacks the attacker. Years ago in Torrance, Ca, USA an individual tried to do something similar at a local hotel. The room was made up of some un-armed Police Officers and City Officials in team building exercise. Yes, two officer died but so did the Gunman. Everybody else survived. 2. Train Security Forces/ School Police to pre-plan facilities and practice for this kind of tactical event with the local law enforcement together. Most of these exercises are done to make the local PD look good, but people who know ( the site security force) the facility have stay back. The reality is that the Security Force should be armed and trained to provide the lead. 3. Practice as if your life depends on it, because it may one day. These are just some of my own thoughts. Mabuhay Eskrima! Marc Lawrence South Bay --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:02:36 -0400 From: Steve Ames To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [Eskrima] (no subject) Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net On Sun, Apr 22, 2007 at 07:26:19PM -0700, TenDigitTouch wrote: > I think it is sad that those who read this list just let it pass > that people (our kids) need to be guided to take an active role in > defending themselves, or risk dying. When someone replied to my > last post that it is just impractical to teach 30,000 people on a > college campus how to defend themselves, I was surprised. Why? It is impractical. And for many a waste of time. Its also got a poor cost to benefit ratio. There are a lot of other things that I would like to see taught in a mandatory manner that would yield a lot more benefit for our society: First Aid, basic home and auto repair, understanding finance, etc... These are all things that can be taught much more quickly than self defence and will have a greater use throughout their lives. How many students are atacked/killed every year? Do I think high-schools should require a semester of self defense (mental and physical)? Absolutely. But the same people who don't wnat me carrying a gun don't want me training little bobby to be a killer. Parents are free to choose the education they want for their children. That's part of freedom. I can't take that freedom and expect anyone to respect the ones I want to keep. > I am > sure the terrorists love to read that kind of posting, Especially > when no one takes exception. Yum. Spread that fear :) -Steve --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:42:52 -0400 To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net From: Michael Gallagher Subject: Re: [Eskrima] Re: Titles Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net At 06:33 AM 4/22/2007, you wrote: >>GrandMaster/Sensei/Guro/Datu Ray Terry < > > Hey Ray, > > When did you drop the "Grand Poobah of the Internet" title? Because ____I_____ am the Grand Poobah of the Internet. Really. Honest. I gave myself a nice certificate for it, so it must be true! :) >Bill >_______________________________________________ >Eskrima mailing list, 2400 members Eskrima@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:26:21 -0700 (PDT) From: RJ Garcia Subject: Re: [Eskrima] FMA thoughts on Tactical situations To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Let me just say, this is sort of sad. People escorted out of a campus for performing a demo there in the US? Swords going to be banned in the UK (I heard you had "knife amnesties" there in the UK)? Are people really becoming that paranoid over there? When my group did an FMA demo at an event of the Humanities Department of my college, they even requested me to use a live bolo in my sayaw. And as for some sort of martial training for all students, it might not instantly turn everyone into heroes, but if it did have a positive effect on even just one or two people, won't that make it worth it? It would probably be better than the ceaseless marching under the sun that the current Citizen's Military Training/ ROTC programs most of our schools have here in the Philippines. Is CMT/ROTC required for all students there in the US? How about in the UK? Also, the thing I find disturbing about the school shootings there in the US is that they are RANDOM shootings. As what people have said here, people do get shot and stabbed here in the Philippines, but most if not all of them are born out of personal vendettas or escalated drunken scuffles and such. The most random crime here, as far as I know, would be armed mugging/robbery, where the weapon is mostly used to intimidate. Gumagalang, rj garcia kamao.org ----- Original Message ---- From: "Lawrence, Marc J." Currently at many US Colleges & US Public Schools martial arts are looked at negatively, this because many people feel threaten by anyone who can fight. Friends of mine have been escorted off of a College campus after giving a FMA Demo because of the Eskrima sticks by the Campus Law Enforcement. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Peter Gow" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 23:21:31 +0000 Subject: [Eskrima] Virginian University Incident. Reply-To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Apologies for sticking my big nose in but I have been reading articles on the digest and hearing in the news about the incident in the Virginian University. Has anyone paused to think that the whole incident may possibly be drug related - the public has had no report concerning any autopsy or blodd samples done on the perfs body. Just my 2c worth. Peter Gow _________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: House hunt online now! ninemsn.realestate.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Erealestate%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fcgi%2Dbin%2Frsearch%3Fa%3Dbhp%26t%3Dres%26cu%3DMSN&_t=758874163&_r=HM_Txt_Link_Oct06&_m=EXT --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Eskrima mailing list Eskrima@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima Subscribe or Unsubscribe: http://eskrima-fma.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/eskrima Copyright 1994-2007: Ray Terry, MartialArtsResource.com, Sudlud.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of Eskrima Digest